12th Cycle dedication

CHULIN 45 (10 Av) - Dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel of Ra'anana, Israel, in memory of his father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo ha'Levi Turkel. Isi Turkel, as he was known, loved Torah and worked to support it literally with his last ounce of strength. He passed away on 10 Av 5740.

1)

(a)What does Rav Yehudah Amar Rav say about many tiny holes on the circumference of the Gargeres which resemble a sieve?

(b)Rav Yirmiyah queries Rav Yehudah from a Beraisa which discusses the Shi'ur of holes of a skull. What is the Shi'ur of a hole in a skull that renders the skull unable to be Metamei be'Ohel ha'Meis?

(c)What Shi'ur does the Tana now give if ...

1. ... the hole is elongated instead of round?

2. ... there are many small holes?

(d)How does this pose a Kashya on Rav Yehudah?

1)

(a)Rav Yehudah Amar Rav rules that many tiny holes on the circumference of the Gargeres which resemble a sieve - combine to make up a Shi'ur of Rov.

(b)Rav Yirmiyah queries Rav Yehudah from a Beraisa which discusses the Shi'ur of holes on a skull. The Shi'ur of a hole that negates the Tum'as Ohel of a skull is - the size of the head of a doctor's awl.

(c)The Shi'ur the Tana now gives if ...

1. ... the hole is elongated instead of round - is if the missing flesh would be the size of a doctor's awl if it was round.

2. ... there are many small holes is - that they combine to make up the size of the head of a doctor's awl.

(d)This a Kashya on Rav Yehudah - because by the same token, he ought to combine the holes if they are the size of an Isar (which is the size that renders Chesaron ha'Gargeres T'reifah), and not the Shi'ur of Rov, like Rav Yehudah learns?

2)

(a)Rav Yirmiyah it seems, forgot what Rebbi Chelbo ... Amar Rav said. What did Rebbi Chelbo say to distinguish between holes with a Chesaron (flesh missing) and holes without a Chesaron?

(b)How does this negate Rebbi Yirmiyah's Kashya on Rav Yehudah?

(c)What does Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi say about a thin strip of flesh that has been removed from the length of the Gargeres?

(d)Rebbi Yitzchal bar Nachmeni asked him what the Din will be if the Gargeres is punctured like a sieve round the circumference. What did he reply?

2)

(a)Rav Yirmiyah it seems, forgot the ruling of Rebbi Chelbo ... Amar Rav - who gave the Shi'ur of holes with a Chesaron (flesh missing) as the size of an Isar, and holes without a Chesaron as Rov.

(b)This negates Rebbi Yirmiyah's Kashya on Rav Yehudah - since the latter is speaking where the tiny holes do not have a Chesaron.

(c)Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi rules that a thin strip of flesh that has been removed from the length of the Gargeres (leaving a Chesaron) - combines to make the animal T'reifah, if, rolled up, it has the Shi'ur of an Isar.

(d)When Rebbi Yitzchal bar Nachmeini asked him what the Din will be if the Gargeres is punctured like a sieve round the circumference, he replied - by drawing a distinction between holes with a Chesaron (whose Shi'ur is an Isar) and holes without a Chesaron (whose Shi'ur is Rov [like Rebbi Chelbo].

3)

(a)What Shi'ur did Rebbi Yitzchak bar Nachmeni give with regard to the equivalent case (Nikvah ke'Nafah) by a bird?

(b)What Si'man did Rav Papa give by which to remember that this is the Shi'ur (and not that of an Isar or of Rov)?

3)

(a)Regarding the equivalent case by a bird ('Nikvah ke'Nafah'), Rebbi Yitzchak bar Nachmeni explained that - if after cutting round the area containing the holes and turning it inside the neck at ninety degrees, it covers the majority of the hole, the bird is T'reifah. If not, it is Kasher.

(b)The Si'man Rav Papa gave by which to remember that this is the Shi'ur (and not that of an Isar or of Rov) is that - the holes resemble a sieve, so one now places it inside the neck like a sieve.

4)

(a)And what Shi'ur does Rav ...

1. ... Nachman give in a case where the Kaneh is cut on three sides in the form of a door? Why is the Din there more lenient than a case of a hole with a Chesaron?

2. ... give in a case where the Kaneh is split lengthwise? What does Chulya mean?

(b)Why is the Halachah more lenient where the split is lengthwise than when it is widthwise?

(c)What objection did Rebbi Yochanan raise to Rav's ruling? What does he say?

(d)What was his reaction when they told him that Rebbi Yonasan said the same thing?

4)

(a)And the Shi'ur that Rav ...

1. ... Nachman gives in a case where the Kaneh is cut on three sides in the form of a door is that - an Isar (coin) fits on to the door, a more lenient ruling than a case of a hole with a Chesaron - because in this case, there is no Chesaron.

2. ... gives in a case where the Kaneh is split lengthwise is - if not even a Chulya (three rings [or one, according to some]) at either end remain intact.

(b)The Halachah is more lenient where the split is lengthwise than when it is widthwise - because when the animal breathes, and the neck stretches one way and the lungs draw the other way, a split widthwise tends to open more (preventing it from healing), whereas a split lengthwise tends to narrow (pulling it together).

(c)Rebbi Yochanan queried - why Rav requires a Chulya at each end to prevent the animal from becoming a T'reifah, when a Mashehu will suffice?

(d)When they told him that Rebbi Yonasan said the same thing - he praised the Babylonian (Rebbi Yonasan, who moved to Eretz Yisrael from Bavel), for knowing how to explain this ruling properly.

5)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Yosef quoting a Beraisa in front of Rebbi Yochanan, gave the location of Shechitah as from the Taba'as ha'Gedolah right down to the lower lobe of the lung. Why is this ruling not Halachah?

(b)How does Rava explain lower in this case?

(c)Is this synonymous with the end of the Kaneh?

5)

(a)Rebbi Chiya bar Yosef quoting a Beraisa in front of Rebbi Yochanan, gave the location of Shechitah as from the Taba'as ha'Gedolah right down to the lower lobe of the lung. This ruling is not Halachah however - because it follows the opinion of Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah, whereas we rule like Rebbi Chanina ben Antignos, who permits Shechting higher up, as far as the Shipuy Kova.

(b)Rava explains lower in this case to mean - when the animal is hanging with its head downwards (which in fact, would be on top if one was holding the Kaneh).

(c)This does not constitute the end of the Kaneh - which extends up to the point where the lobes join.

6)

(a)Why does Rava explain lower in this way (and not where one is holding the Kaneh in one's hand)?

(b)What does he warn the Shochet not to do?

(c)What do we conclude with regard to Rebbi Chanina (or Rebbi Chananya) as to whether one may Shecht the part of the Kaneh that is exposed when the animal stretches in order to graze where it could not otherwise reach?

(d)What conclusion do Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish between them arrive at regarding ...

1. ... a case where the Shochet stretches the Kaneh before Shechitah?

2. ... the Shi'ur T'reifus regarding a hole in the area of the Kaneh beyond the chest?

6)

(a)Rava explains lower in this way, and not where one is holding the Kaneh in one's hand - because he only permits Shechting the part of the Kaneh that becomes exposed when the animal grazes (incorporating the part that runs between the first lobes), but not the rest (the part of the Kaneh that runs beyond that).

(b)He warns the Shochet - not to pull the head manually, to extend the Kaneh still further (in order to Shecht it at that point).

(c)Regarding Rebbi Chanina (or Rebbi Chananya) She'eilah as to whether one may Shecht the part of the Kaneh that is exposed when the animal stretches its neck whilst it is being Shechted (see also Tosfos DH 'Ansah Atzmah') - we remain with Teiku (which, like all Sefeikos min ha'Torah, we rule Lechumra).

(d)Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish between them arrive at the conclusion that ...

1. ... in a case where the Shochet stretches the Kaneh before Shechitah - the animal is T'reifah.

2. ... the Shi'ur T'reifus regarding a hole in the area of the Kaneh beyond the chest is (not be'Rov like a hole [which is not Chaser] in the Gargeres, but) - be'Mashehu.

7)

(a)A Beraisa defining the Chazah (the chest), gives as the lowest part, the section that sees the ground. One extremity is the neck; what is the other?

(b)To which ar4ea of Halachah is the Tana referring?

(c)What must one do before giving it to the Kohen?

7)

(a)A Beraisa defining the Chazah (the chest), gives as the lowest part, the section that sees the ground. One extremity is the neck, the other - the Keres.

(b)The Tana is referring to the 'Chazeh ve'Shok (the chest and the right calf) of a Shelamim that the owner must give to the Kohen.

(c)Before giving it to him - he cuts off the first two ribs on either side of the Kaneh, and then hands it to him together with the Chazeh.

8)

(a)Rav and Shmuel both confine Nikav K'rum shel Mo'ach (which our Mishnah lists as T'reifah), to the upper membrane (that is attached to the inside of the skull), even though the soft, lower membrane is still intact. What do others say?

(b)What Si'man does Rav Shmuel bar Nachmeni give to remind us that the lower membrane exists, even though it is extremely thin?

(c)Bearing this in mind, what example did Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi present as a means of comparison?

(d)What is the major distinction between the two membranes of the brain and the two membranes of the testicles?

8)

(a)Rav and Shmuel both confine Nikav K'rum shel Mo'ach (which our Mishnah lists as T'reifah), to the upper membrane (that is attached to the inside of the skull), even though the soft, lower membrane is still intact. According to others however - the animal is a T'reifah only if both membranes are holed.

(b)To remind us that the lower membrane exists, even though it is extremely thin, Rav Shmuel bar Nachmeni gives, as a Siman - the sack which encases the brain.

(c)Bearing this in mind, Rabah bar bar Chanah Amar Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi cites - the two membranes of the testicles with which to compare the two membranes of the brain.

(d)The major distinction between the two membranes of the brain and the two membranes of the testicles is that - the latter excludes the sack that encases them both, whereas in the former, the upper membrane is itself the sack.

9)

(a)What is the difference between the Shi'ur T'reifus of the brain and that of the spinal cord?

(b)How does Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi ... in the name of bar Kaparah, define the border between the two?

(c)Why does Rebbi Yitzchak bar Nachmeni quoting Rebbi Yehoshua ban Levi, then cite the two glands that divides between the brain and the spinal cord?

(d)He is not at first sure to which of the two the actual glands pertain. What does he conclude? On what does he base his conclusion?

(e)What did Rebbi Yirmiyah discover when (presumably for the first time) he examined a bird?

9)

(a)The difference between the Shi'ur T'reifus of the brain and that of the spinal cord is that - whereas in the case of the former, a hole the size of a Mash'hu renders it a T'reifah, in the case of the latter, it only becomes a T'reifah if the majority breaks.

(b)Rebbi Shimon ben Pazi ... in the name of bar Kaparah, defines the border between the two as - where it begins to flow from the dish (shaped brain).

(c)Rebbi Yitzchak bar Nachmeni quoting Rebbi Yehoshua ban Levi, cites as the border between the two as the two glands that divide between the brain and the spinal cord - because what is within the glands is considered brain, and what is without, spinal cord.

(d)He is not at first sure to which of the two the actual glands pertain. He concludes however - that they have the Din of the brain, and he bases his conclusion on logic.

(e)When (presumably for the first time), Rebbi Yirmiyah examined a bird, he discovered the two glands on top of the dish.

45b----------------------------------------45b

10)

(a)Our Mishnah includes a hole in the heart that reaches the cavity. Abaye tries to resolve Rebbi Zeira's She'eilah (whether this refers to the large cavity or to one of the smaller cavities), from a statement by Rabah bar Tachlifa ... Amar Rav. What did Rabah bar Tachlifa say regarding Rebbi Shimon's ruling in our Mishnah 'ad she'Tinakev (ha'Rei'ah) le'Beis ha'Simponos'?

(b)Based on the different Leshonos employed by the Mishnah, on what grounds does Rebbi Zeira refute Abaye's proof?

(c)Rav renders an animal with the smallest hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv a T'reifah. What does Shmuel say?

(d)Rabah bar Yitzchak Amar Rav interprets Kaneh ha'Leiv as the Cheilev on the walls. Why can this not refer to the sides of the animal?

(e)Then what does it refer to?

10)

(a)Our Mishnah includes a hole in the heart that reaches the cavity. Abaye tries to resolve Rebbi Zeira's She'eilah (whether this refers to the large cavity or to one of the smaller cavities), from a statement by Rabah bar Tachlifa ... Amar Rav, who established Rebbi Shimon's ruling in our Mishnah 'ad she'Tinakev (ha'Rei'ah) le'Beis ha'Simponos' - specifically by the large bronchi (air-tube); likewise here.

(b)Rebbi Zeira refutes Abaye's proof however - on the grounds that whereas 'le'Beis ha'Simponos' of Rebbi Shimon implies the main central bronchi (into which all other bronchi pour), 'le'Beis Chalalo' in our case implies any of the cavities (otherwise, the Tana ought to have said 'le'Beis ha'Chalalim').

(c)Rav renders an animal with the smallest hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv a T'reifah - Shmuel requires the majority.

(d)Rabah bar Yitzchak Amar Rav interprets Kaneh ha'Leiv as the Cheilev on the walls. He cannot be referring to the sides of the animal - because life is not dependent upon them, in which case a hole there would not render the animal T'reifah.

(e)What he therefore is refering to is - the fat-covered pipe that runs between the walls (the two sides) of the lungs.

11)

(a)Ameimar citing Rav Nachman, lists three such Kanim that branch off from the Kaneh after it enters the chest area. One of them runs into the heart, another into the lungs. Where does the third one lead to?

(b)We just learned that Rav and Shmuel argue over the Shi'ur T'reifus of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv. What is the difference between the Shi'ur T'reifus of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Re'ah and that of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Kaved, according to...

1. ... the first Lashon?

2. ... the second Lashon?

(c)What proof do we have that the Halachah is like the first Lashon?

11)

(a)Ameimar citing Rav Nachman lists three such Kanim that branch off from the Kaneh after it enters the chest area. One of them runs into the heart, another into the lungs, and the third - into the liver.

(b)We just learned that Rav and Shmuel argue over the Shi'ur T'reifus of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv. The difference between the Shi'ur T'reifus of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Re'ah and that of a hole in the Kaneh ha'Kaved, according to ...

1. ... the first Lashon is that - the former is like the lung itself (a Mashehu), whereas the latter is like the Shi'ur of the liver (which is only T'reifah if the entire organ is missing).

2. ... the second Lashon is that - the Kaneh ha'Rei'ah has the same Din as the liver, and the Kaneh ha'Kaved, as that of the lung.

(c)The proof that the Halachah is like the first Lashon lies in the fact - that Rebbi Yochanan concurs with it, when he rules (in connection with the Kaneh ha'Re'ah) 'Nikvah le'Matah min ha'Chazeh, Nidon ke'Re'ah' (as we learned on the previous Amud).

12)

(a)What was Shmuel's reaction when they first told him of Rav's ruling regarding a hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv? How is it that Shmuel had been previously unaware of Rav's opinion?

(b)According to some texts, Shmuel referred to Rav as Aba Chaveri (in which case, Aba was Rav's name). Why did he refer to him by that name according to the version that reads just Aba?

12)

(a)When they first told Shmuel of Rav's ruling regarding a hole in the Kaneh ha'Leiv - he exclaimed that if that is what Rav held, then he knew nothing about T'reifus. He had previously been unaware of Rav's opinion - because whereas Rav was Rosh Yeshivah in Sura, he was Rosh Yeshivah in Neherda'a.

(b)According to some texts, Shmuel referred to Rav as Aba Chaveri (in which case, Aba was Rav's name). According to the version that reads just Aba (which besides being a name is also a respectful title), Shmuel referred to him by that name - out of respect, because Rav was greater than him.

13)

(a)Rebbi in a Beraisa, gives the Shi'ur T'reifus of the Chut ha'Shedrah as Nifsak be'Rubo. What does Rebbi Ya'akov say?

(b)What did Rebbi rule when an animal was brought before him with a spinal cord that had a hole in it?

(c)How does Rav Huna nevertheless rule?

13)

(a)Rebbi in a Beraisa, gives the Shi'ur T'reifus of the Chut ha'Shedrah as Nifsak be'Rubo. According to Rebbi Ya'akov - even a small hole renders the animal a T'reifah.

(b)When an animal was brought before Rebbi with a spinal cord that had a hole in it - he ruled that it was T'reifah (like Rebbi Ya'akov).

(c)Rav Huna nevertheless rules that - it is Kasher (like Rebbi's original ruling).

14)

(a)Rav Huna interprets Rubo as Rov Oro (the majority of the circumference of the skin). What do others say?

(b)What does ...

1. ... the second opinion say about Rov Oro?

2. ... the first opinion say about Rov Mocho?

(c)What did Rav Nasan bar Avin comment when he saw Rav check first for Rov Oro and then, when he found the skin intact, for Rov Mocho?

14)

(a)Rav Huna interprets Rubo as Rov Oro (the majority of the circumference of the skin). Others interpret it as - Rov Mocho (the majority of the marrow that runs along it).

(b)According to ...

1. ... the second opinion - if Rov Mocho renders the animal T'reifah, how much more so Rov Oro (since ultimately, all the marrow will leak out).

2. ... the first opinion - Rov Mocho does not render the animal a T'reifah (as Nivli specifically cited on the name of Rav).

(c)When Rav Nasan bar Avin saw Rav check first for Rov Oro and then, when he found the skin intact, for Rov Mocho, he commented that - if Rov Oro is intact, the spinal cord requires no further examination.

15)

(a)Rabah bar bar Chanah citing Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi declares T'reifah an animal whose spinal cord is either Nismarech or Nismasmes,. What is the meaning of ...

1. ... Nismarech?

2. ... Nismasmes?

(b)Why does Rabah bar bar Chanah not just present the case of Nismasmes, and allow us to extrapolate Nismarech from a Kal va'Chomer?

(c)Rebbi Yirmiyah asks about an animal with a heavy spinal cord, and remains with a Teiku. What is his She'eilah?

(d)Assuming that the current cases are T'reifah, to which category of T'reifus do they belong?

(e)In which two ways can this be explained?

15)

(a)Rabah bar bar Chanah citing Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi declares T'reifah an animal whose spinal cord is either ...

1. ... Nismarech - where the marrow has liquefied to the point that, if there was a hole in the skin, it would leak out), or ...

2. ... Nismasmes - where it has become sufficiently soft that if one were to hold it in one's hand in a vertical position, the small part that protrudes would bend and fold over (even though it would not leak if there was a hole).

(b)Rabah bar bar Chanah could not just present the case of Nismasmes, and allow us to extrapolate Nismarech from a Kal va'Chomer - because we would then translate Nismasmes as Nismarech (and declare what we now call Nismasmes, Kasher).

(c)Rebbi Yirmiyah asks about an animal with a heavy spinal cord, and remains with a Teiku. His She'eilah is - whether, assuming that the spinal cord could not stand vertically (as we just explained regarding a soft spinal cord) due to its weight, is that an illness that renders the animal a T'reifah, or not?

(d)Assuming that the current cases are T'reifah, - they belong to the category of Nifsak ha'Chut ...

(e)... either because in the end, Chazal anticipate that this is what is going to happen, or because in itself, it is considered as if the cord has snapped.

16)

(a)Bei Rav say 'Nismasmes Pasul, Nismazmez Kasher'. What does Nismazmez mean?

(b)Why do they need to repeat Nismasmes Pasul?

(c)How do they then amend the Beraisa 'Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar Omer, Nismazmez Mochah, T'reifah'?

(d)What did Levi comment when he saw someone bang his head violently in the bathhouse?

(e)If, according to bei Rav, he did not mean that the man was now a T'reifah, what did he mean?

16)

(a)Bei Rav rules 'Nismasmes Pasul, Nismazmez Kasher'. Nismazmez means - that some of the marrow has emptied from the spinal cord.

(b)They need to repeat 'Nismasmes, Pasul' - to avoid the misconception that Nismazmez is equivalent to Mismasmes, and that they are coming to argue with Rabah bar bar Chanah.

(c)And they amend the Beraisa 'Rebbi Shimon ben Elazar Omer, Nismazmez Mochah, T'reifah' to read - 'Mismasmes Mochah, T'reifah'.

(d)When Levi saw someone bang his head violently in the bathhouse, he commented - 'Nismazmez Mocho de'Dein' (this man's head is Nismazmez).

(e)According to bei Rav, he did not mean that the man was now a T'reifah - but that he was unable to conceive children.

17)

(a)How far does the spinal cord extend?

(b)Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel explains that the Din T'reifus applies up to the Bein ha'Parshos. What are the Bein ha'Parshos?

(c)Where do the first Pitzulin branch off to?

17)

(a)The spinal cord extends - as far as the tail.

(b)Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel explains that the Din T'reifus applies only up to the Bein ha'Parshos - comprising an area towards the back of the spinal cord from which pairs of nerves branch off on either side.

(c)The first pair of nerves branch off - to the thighs.

18)

(a)When Rav Dimi bar Yitzchak brought Rav Yehudah a fat goat (Shechted and cut open) to show him where Bein ha'Parshos were, he was unable to do so. Why was that? Why would he have had no problem had the goat been a little thinner?

(b)Why did Rav Yehudah not simply cut the animal open and show Rav Dimi what he needed to know on the inside?

(c)What did Rav Dimi bar Yitzchak then do?

(d)What problem did Rav Yehudah still have in showing him the Beis ha'Parshos?

18)

(a)When Rav Dimi bar Yitzchak brought Rav Yehudah a fat goat (Shechted and cut open) to show him where the Bein ha'Parshos were, he was unable to do so - because the animal was so fat, that the fat covered over the Chut ha'Shedrah, which, due to its whiteness, would otherwise have been visible through the animal's skin.

(b)Rav Yehudah did not simply cut the animal open and show Rav Dimi what he needed to know on the inside - because he was too busy.

(c)So Rav Dimi bar Yitzchak - brought Rav Yehudah another goat, but this time, a particularly scrawny one.

(d)Cnsequently, Rav Yehudah was still unable to show him the Beis ha'Parshos - because the sciatic nerve pressing against the flesh caused it to push against the marrow, making the branches very thin and indiscernible from the outside.

19)

(a)So he taught him the principle ad Achas, T'reifah, Shelishis, T'reifah ... . What did he mean by that?

(b)What did he say about Sheniyah?

19)

(a)So he taught him the principle ad Achas, T'reifah, Shelishis, T'reifah ... by which he meant that - at the point where the first pair of nerves branch off it is definitely subject to T'reifus, whereas at the point of the third pair, it is definitely not.

(b)And he concluded - that he did not know whether it was subject to T'reifus at the point where the second pair branch off.

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