PAST DEDICATION
BAVA METZIA 62-63 - Dedicated by Andy & Nancy Neff of Teaneck, N.J. in honor of those who learn the Dafyomi around the world.

1)

(a)Rava establishes our Mishnah like Rebbi Oshaya. What did Rava remark, based on the fact that, on a number of occasions, he explained Mishnayos like him?

(b)What did Rebbi Oshaya quote a Beraisa as saying ...

1. ... regarding Reuven who lent Shimon a Manah, and when he went to Shimon's granary for his money (which he needed in order to purchase wheat), Shimon offered him wheat on credit, but at the current market price, if Reuven came for his wheat at market time, and found that it was now worth more than the Manah he had lent him?

2. ... if in the same case, Reuven came for his wheat in order to sell it and purchase wine, and Shimon offered to give him wine under exactly the same conditions, or if he then went on to offer him oil instead of his wine?

(c)If Reuven gave Shimon a Manah for wheat on credit, and when the time arrived, the price of wheat had risen, Rebbi Oshaya would permit him to take it even if Shimon did not initially have wheat (provided the price was fixed at the time when he paid him the money). Why is that?

(d)And what is it that transforms this case from a loan (which would have been forbidden) into a sale (which is permitted)?

1)

(a)Rava establishes our Mishnah like Rebbi Oshaya. Based on the fact that, on a number of occasions, he explained Mishnayos like him, Rava remarked that when he died, Rebbi Oshaya would come from Gan Eden to meet him.

(b)Rebbi Oshaya quoted a Beraisa as saying ...

1. ... that if Reuven lent Shimon a Manah, and when he went to Shimon's granary for his money which he needed in order to purchase wheat, Shimon offered him wheat on credit, but at the current market price, if Reuven came for his wheat at market time, and found that it was now worth more than the Manah he had lent him he was permitted to take it, provided Shimon had wheat at the time that he borrowed the money.

2. ... that if in the same case, Reuven came for his wheat in order to sell it and purchase wine, and Shimon offered to give him wine later (under exactly the same conditions), or if he then went on to offer him oil instead of his wine he was permitted to take it, provided Shimon had wine (or oil) at the time that the transaction took place.

(c)If Reuven gave Shimon a Manah for wheat on credit, and when the time arrived, the price of wheat had risen, Rebbi Oshaya would permit him to take it even if Shimon did not initially have wheat (provided the price was fixed at the time when he paid him the money) because, based on the principle 'Im Ein la'Zeh, Yesh la'Zeh', it does not even resemble Ribis.

(d)What transforms this case from a loan (which would have been forbidden) into a sale (which is permitted) is the fact that they cannot retract without accepting a 'Mi She'Para' (see Haga'hos ha'G'ra).

2)

(a)Rava extrapolates three Chidushim from Rebbi Oshiya's Beraisa. The first is 'Ma'amidin Milveh al-Gabei Peiros'. What does he mean by that?

(b)Whose opinion does he come to preclude?

(c)What is the second Chidush?

(d)The third Chidush is like Rebbi Yanai, who says 'Mah li Hein, Mah li D'meihen' (that there is no difference whether the purchaser receives the fruit [that has risen in price], or its value in money). How does Rava learn this from there?

2)

(a)Rava extrapolates three Chidushim from Rebbi Oshiya's Beraisa. The first is 'Ma'amidin Milveh al-Gabei Peiros', meaning that one is permitted to transfer a loan of money on to fruit at today's price, even if when the fruit is handed over, the price has risen, and we do not hold of the Sevara 'Lo ke'Isro ha'Ba le'Yado Hu'.

(b)This precludes the opinion of the Beraisa cited by Rabah on the previous Amud.

(c)The second Chidush is the qualifier, permitting it only on condition that the debtor has fruit at the time of the transfer.

(d)The third Chidush is like Rebbi Yanai, who says 'Mah li Hein, Mah li Demeihen' (that there is no difference whether the purchaser receives the fruit [that has risen in price], or its value in money), which Rava learns from the fact that Rebbi Oshaya permits transferring the wheat (by first assessing its price) on to wine.

3)

(a)Rav disagrees with Rebbi Yanai. What does he say?

(b)Rava just proved Rebbi Yanai's opinion from Rebbi Oshiya's Beraisa. Initially, Rav Huna Amar Rav explains the Beraisa ('Kulam Im Yesh lo, Mutar'), where Reuven made a Kinyan on the wheat. So what if he did? How will that remove the aspect of Ribis from the transaction?

(c)What problem do we have with this answer?

(d)So we conclude that what Rav really meant was (not that he actually made a Kinyan on the wheat, but) that Reuven specified a corner in his house where to place it. What is then the Chidush?

3)

(a)Rav, who disagrees with Rebbi Yanai permits making an Amanah (giving money on credit) to receive fruit, but not to receive money (under any circumstances [because it looks like Ribis)].

(b)Rava just proved Rebbi Yanai's opinion from Rebbi Oshiya's Beraisa. Initially, Rav Huna Amar Rav explains the Beraisa ('Kulam Im Yesh Lo, Mutar'), where Reuven made a Kinyan on the wheat in which case he acquires it, removing the aspect of loan (and therefore of Ribis) from the transaction.

(c)The problem with this answer is that this would be obvious, and the Beraisa would not be teaching us anything.

(d)So we conclude that what Rav really meant was (not that he actually made a Kinyan on the wheat, but) that Reuven designated a corner in his house where to place it and the Chidush now is that designation is significant (even to the point that it can remove the aspect of Ribis).

4)

(a)Shmuel answers the Kashya from the above Beraisa by establishing it like Rebbi Yehudah in another Beraisa, who permits Reuven, who owes Shimon a Manah, to 'sell' Shimon his field, which will serve as payment for the loan should he fail to repay it by a certain date, but revert to Reuven in the event that he pays, even if Shimon eats the fruit. Why is that?

(b)What does the Tana Kama say?

(c)How does this reconcile the Beraisa with Rav?

(d)What did the Rabanan retort when Rebbi Yehudah supported his opinion with an incident with Bitus ben Zonin, who (under the same conditions) designated his field to his creditor, who subsequently ate the fruit? Under whose supervision did this transaction take place?

4)

(a)Shmuel answers the Kashya from the above Beraisa by establishing it like Rebbi Yehudah in another Beraisa, who permits Reuven, who owes Shimon a Manah, to 'sell' Shimon his field, which will serve as payment for the loan should he fail to repay it by a certain date, but revert to Reuven in the event that he pays, even if Shimon eats the fruit because he holds 'Tzad Echad be'Ribis, Mutar' (a fifty per-cent chance of the Ribis taking place, such as here, where it will entail Ribis only if Reuven manages to pay and the field is returned to him.

(b)The Tana Kama forbids such a transaction, unless it is Reuven who eats the fruit, because he holds 'Tzad Echad be'Ribis, Asur'

(c)This reconciles the Beraisa with Rav inasmuch as Rebbi Oshiya's Beraisa too, is a case of Tzad Echad be'Ribis, since the seller has the option of giving the purchaser fruit, and not money.

(d)When Rebbi Yehudah supported his opinion with an incident with Bitus ben Zonin, who, under the same conditions (and under the supervision of Rebbi Elazar ben Azaryah), 'sold' his field to his creditor, who subsequently ate the fruit the Rabanan retorted that his version of the case was incorrect, and that it was Bitus ben Zonin, who had eaten the fruit in the interim.

5)

(a)Abaye too, explains the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Tana Kama by 'Tzad Echad be'Ribis', as we just explained. Rava disagrees. On what basis did Rebbi Yehudah permit the above transaction, according to him

(b)What do the Chachamim then hold.

5)

(a)Abaye too, explains the Machlokes between Rebbi Yehudah and the Tana Kama by 'Tzad Echad be'Ribis', as we just explained. But according to Rava (who establishes the Beraisa like Rebbi Yanai), Rebbi Yehudah permitted the above transaction on the condition that Shimon returns the Ribis together with the field, should Reuven subsequently pay, because he holds 'Ribis al-M'nas Lehachzir, Mutar' (but Tzad Echad be'Ribis is forbidden even according to Rebbi Yehudah).

(b)Whereas the Chachamim hold 'Ribis al-Menas Lehachzir, Asur'.

63b----------------------------------------63b

6)

(a)Rava extrapolates from Rebbi Yanai, who holds 'Mah li Hein, Mah li Demeihen', that, by the same token, we will say 'Mah li Demeihen, Mah li Hein'. What does he mean by that?

(b)But is this not what the Mishnah means when it states later 'Yazta ha'Sha'ar, Poskin'?

(c)Why do we first refer to the money as 'Demeihen' and the fruit as 'Hein', and then reverse the order, to call the money 'Hein' and the fruit 'Demeihen'?

6)

(a)Rava extrapolates from Rebbi Yanai, who holds 'Mah li Hein, Mah li Demeihen', that, by the same token, we will say 'Mah li Hein, Mah li Demeihen', meaning that if, after the price of the wheat has been fixed, the purchaser gives him money for wheat that he will supply him later, this is permitted even if he has no wheat, because he has the money with which to purchase it, and what difference does it make whether he has wheat, or whether he has the money ... ?

(b)When the Mishnah states later 'Yazta ha'Sha'ar, Poskin' it is talking about a more basic sort of price-fixing (rather than the market-price which is fixed by the merchants who arrive in town to sell in the markets), as we shall see.

(c)We first refer to the money as 'Demeihen' and the fruit as 'Hein', and then reverse the order, to call the money 'Hein' and the fruit 'Demeihen' because in the latter case, where the purchaser initially gave money for fruit, the money is referred to as 'Hein', and the fruit, the 'Damim' of the money that he gave; whereas in the former, where the seller is giving the purchaser money instead of the fruit that he purchased, it is appropriate to call the fruit 'Hein and the Damim, 'Demeihen'.

7)

(a)We learned in the Beraisa of Rebbi Oshaya 'Kulan, Im Yesh lo Mutar, Im Ein lo Asur'. There too, the seller initially received money. Why should we not then apply the Sevara 'Mah li Demeihen, Mah li Hein'? (This is unclear however, since 'Mah li Demeihen, Mah li Hein' is not applicable here, seeing as Rebbi Oshaya forbids him to receive even the wheat, which is the 'Demeihen' itself. See Ritva).

(b)What reason do Rabah and Rav Yosef ascribe to the Din of 'Poskin al Sha'ar she'be'Shuk ... '?

(c)Abaye asked Rav Yosef why Se'ah be'Se'ah' is not permitted for the same reason, because 'Chiti de'Kadchi be'Akalba'i'. What does this mean?

(d)What did Rav Yosef answer him?

7)

(a)We learned in the Beraisa of Rebbi Oshaya 'Kulan, Im Yesh lo Mutar, Im Ein lo Asur'. There too, the seller initially received money. The Sevara 'Mah li Demeihen, Mah li Hein' will not apply there because, since the money was given in the form of a loan, it involves an Isur d'Oraisa, in which case Chazal were more stringent.

(b)The reason that Rabah and Rav Yosef ascribe to the Din of 'Poskin al Sha'ar she'be'Shuk ... ' is because the purchaser can say to the seller 'Shekilu Tivusech ve'Shadi a'Chizra' ('Your favor is taken and thrown into the bushes' [i.e. if he had not given him his money, he could have bought wheat himself at the current price in Hini and Shilli, places near Pumbedisa, where Rabah and Rav Yosef resided), with exactly the same results).

(c)Abaye asked Rav Yosef why 'Se'ah be'Se'ah' is not permitted for the same reason, because 'Chiti de'Kadchi be'Akalba'i' meaning that had he kept his Se'ah of wheat in his own storehouse, it would not have got wet from the rain (or hot from the heat) and would therefore not have spoilt [so here as well, what favor is he doing him by keeping his Se'ah for him, when he could have kept it himself?]).

(d)Rav Yosef answered him that there, like in the previous case, Chazal confined their leniency to cases of buying and selling (which is only an Isur d'Rabanan), and did not extend it to loans, which are basically d'Oraisa.

8)

(a)Rav Ada bar Ahavah queried Rabah and Rav Yosef however, on the grounds that it ought nevertheless to be Ribis, since the purchaser gains the fees of a Safsira. What is a Safsira?

(b)What did Rava reply?

(c)According to Rav Ashi, that is not necessary. Why not?

8)

(a)Rav Ada bar Ahavah queried Rabah and Rav Yosef however, on the grounds that it ought nevertheless to be Ribis, since the purchaser gains the fees of a Safsira a middle man who would go round buying from one person and selling to another.

(b)Rava replied that he is indeed obligated to add the Safsira's fees to those of the seller.

(c)According to Rav Ashi, that is not necessary seeing as there are many sellers who travel with their corn from place to place, thereby circumventing the Safsira's fees.

9)

(a)Under what condition does the Mishnah later permit buying wheat on credit, based on Tar'a Charifa? What is 'Tar'a Charifa'?

(b)What further condition do Rabah and Rav Yosef add to that of the Mishnah?

(c)Why can the reason for this not be in order to acquire it?

(d)Then why does he need to be there?

9)

(a)The Mishnah later permits buying wheat on credit, based on Tar'a Charifa (an early price-fixing immediately following the harvesting of the crops) when the early harvesters sell crops in small quantities at a cheap price provided they have crops already available.

(b)Rabah and Rav Yosef add to the Mishnah's condition that the purchaser must appear in person at the granary whilst the owner is threshing or winnowing his corn.

(c)The reason for this cannot be in order to acquire it since appearing at the barn will not acquire it anyway without a Meshichah.

(d)The reason that the purchaser needs to be present at the granary whilst the owner is working there is for the latter to accept a 'Mi she'Para'.

10)

(a)Seeing as, in other cases, the purchaser does not need to be present for the 'Mi she'Para' to take effect, why is it necessary in this case?

(b)And what will be the Din if the seller doesn't own a granary?

(c)Rav Ashi qualifies Rabah and Rav Yosef's stringency in this regard. What does he say?

10)

(a)Despite the fact that in most cases, the purchaser does not need to be present for the 'Mi she'Para' to take effect, it is necessary in this case inasmuch as, at this early stage of harvesting, purchasers tend to make an interim purchase from two or three merchants until deciding which one is the most lucrative. Consequently, as long as he has not actually turn up at the barn. the seller will assume that he probably found a better deal somewhere else, in which case, he cannot be subject to a 'Mi she'Pra'.

(b)If the seller doesn't own a granary then in the case of Tar'a Charifa, he is forbidden to make an advance sale (although this is not the case by a regular price-fixing).

(c)Rav Ashi qualifying Rabah and Rav Yosef's stringency in this regard, explains that seeing as their reason is based on the owner's reliance on the purchaser's decision, it will suffice for the seller to meet the purchaser in the street and to inform him that he relies on him.

11)

(a)How does Rav Nachman define Ribis that is connected with buying and selling?

(b)Rav Nachman also permits giving four Zuz to a wax-merchant in order to receive five-Zuzim-worth after the price goes up, provided the merchant already has wax available at the time, but not if he doesn't. What if he has wax, but is out of town when he takes the order?

(c)Under which category do these cases fall?

(d)What is Rav Nachman coming to teach us? Is this not the distinction between 'Yesh lo' and 'Ein lo' that our Mishnah has already taught us?

(e)Why might we otherwise have thought that R. Nachman's case too, is permitted?

11)

(a)Rav Nachman defines Ribis that is connected with buying and selling as 'Agar Natar Lei' (whatever the seller gives the purchaser (e.g. a price reduction) to reward him for his advance payment.

(b)Rav Nachman also permits giving four Zuz to a wax-merchant in order to receive five-Zuzim-worth after the price goes up, provided the merchant already has wax available at the time (even if he is out of town when he takes the order, or if he mislaid the key to his wax-store), but not if he doesn't.

(c)Both of these cases still fall under the category of 'Yesh lo', (as we will see later).

(d)This is not the distinction between 'Yesh lo' and 'Ein lo' that our Mishnah has already taught us because Rav Nachman is speaking in a case where the wax merchant has already paid for stocks of wax which only need to be collected, and his Chidush is that it is not called 'Yesh lo' until he actually collects it.

(e)We might otherwise have thought that R. Nachman's case too, is permitted since it ought to be no worse that asking the lender to wait until his son comes or until he finds the key.

12)

(a)What does Rav Nachman say about Reuven who borrows a sum of coins from Shimon and discovers more than they agreed upon?

(b)And what does Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Yosef mean when he says 'be'Isuraysa ve'Chumshaysa'?

(c)How will we explain a discrepancy of ...

1. ... fifty-five coins say, in a large batch of coins?

2. ... twenty-five coins?

3. ... two or three coins?

12)

(a)If Reuven borrows a sum of coins from Shimon and discovers more than they agreed upon, Rav Nachman states that if the discrepancy is a small one, that one might expect someone counting out coins to make, then he is obligated to return them; but if it amounts to more than one would conceivably expect a person to err over, then he may assume that Shimon gave him the excess coins as a gift.

(b)When Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Yosef says 'be'Isuraysa ve'Chumshaysa', he is elaborating on Rav Nachman's statement, and teaching us that if the discrepancy amounts to a multiple of ten or of five (which is the way most people tend to count), then the borrower must assume the lender to have made a mistake, and is obligated to return the difference.

(c)We will assume a discrepancy of ...

1. ... fifty-five coins say, in a large batch of coins to be a double error, one of fifty (assuming that he counted the coins in groups of fifty), and one of five.

2. ... twenty-five coins to be an error of five groups of five.

3. ... two or three coins to be a gift.

13)

(a)What did Rav Ashi reply when Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava asked him what the Din will be in the latter case, if the lender was ...

1. ... a tough guy who does not normally tend to give away gifts?

2. ... if the same tough guy had never had any previous dealings with the borrower?

(b)In the first of these two cases, how can he fulfill the Mitzvah of returning a stolen object without informing the person from whom he stole?

13)

(a)When Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava asked Rav Ashi what the Din will be in the latter case, if the lender was ...

1. ... a tough guy who does not normally tend to give away gifts, he replied that in that case, he had probably stolen from him in the course of a previous transaction and was now coming to pay back what he stole. However ...

2. ... if the same tough guy had never had any previous dealings with the borrower then it must have been a third person who stole from him, and gave him the money to return in this way.

(b)In the first of these two cases, he fulfills the Mitzvah of returning a stolen object, even without informing the person from whom he stole because we learned in a Beraisa that someone who stole from his friend, fulfills the Mitzvah of 'Hashavas Gezeilah' by adding what he stole to another sum of money that he gives or lends him.

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