DISCOUNTS FOR PAYING IN ADVANCE
(Beraisa): Reuven was carrying a bundle to a certain place. Shimon offered: 'I will take it and sell it for you. I will use the money, and later return to you according to what it sells for there':
If Reuven bears any losses on the way, it is permitted (Rashi - for it is not a loan until he sells it; Tosfos - Reuven must pay Shimon's toil and food);
If Shimon bears any losses on the way, it is forbidden.
(Beraisa): Reuven was carrying Peros to a certain place. Shimon offered 'give them to me (to eat), and I will return the same amount to you there.'
If Reuven has Peros there, it is permitted; if not, not.
Donkey-drivers may borrow money on condition to (Rashi - use it and later) return Peros according to the lower price in a different city.
Version #1 (Rashi) Question: Why is this allowed? (They work for the buyer without any pay, just use of his money!)
Answer #1 (Rav Papa): The donkey-drivers gain. They become trustworthy in the eyes of sellers in the city where Peros are cheap. (On other occasions, they will give to them on credit.)
Version #2 (R. Chananel) Question: Why is this allowed? (Even though they are paid, they bear any loss on the way.)
Answer #1 (Rav Papa): They gain. The buyers tell them where Peros are expensive. (end of Version #2)
Answer #2 (Rav Acha brei d'Rav Ika): The sellers give a discount to the donkey-drivers (Rashi - they fear lest the donkey-drivers stop buying from them, since they are not paid.)
Question: What is the difference between the answers?
Version #1 (Rashi) Answer: They argue about a new donkey-driver. (The sellers start to trust him, but he does not get a discount.)
Version #2 (R. Chananel) Answer: They argue about a new lender. (He does not know where the price is expensive, but the donkey-drivers still get a discount from the sellers).
Grain was selling for four (measures for a Zuz) in Sura, and for six in Kafri. Rav gave money (in Sura) to donkey-drivers (to bring from Kafri), he accepted to bear losses on the way. He took from them five measures per Zuz.
Question: He is allowed to take six!
Answer: An important person should not.
Question (R. Asi): May this be done with (other merchandise such as) pieces of metal? (Perhaps the above reasons do not apply, for the donkey-drivers will not frequent the same sellers.)
Version #1 - Answer (R. Yochanan): R. Yishmael b'Rebbi Yosi wanted to do so with linen garments. Rebbi forbade him to.
Version #2 - Answer (R. Yochanan): Rebbi wanted to do so with pieces of metal. R. Yishmael b'Rebbi Yosi forbade him.
BENEFITS FOR PAYING IN ADVANCE
(Rav): It is forbidden to give money (when grapes are immature) to receive mature grapes (later) at a low price.
(Shmuel): This is permitted.
Rav forbids. Since they are worth more later, this resembles Ribis;
Shmuel permits. Since the buyer bears losses that may occur to the crop, it does not look like Ribis.
(Rav Simi bar Chiya): Rav admits about oxen.
Version #1 (Rashi): In a vineyard harvested using oxen, this is permitted, because the oxen get caught in the vines and losses are common.
Version #2 (Tosfos): Rav admits that it may give money (at a low price) for calves that will be born during the year, since miscarriages are common.
Version #3 (Rambam): Rav admits that one may give money (at a low price) for calves to receive them when they are grown, for they often grow weak or die.
Version #1 (Rashi): There were people who used to lend grain to their sharecroppers (for planting) and receive back (after it grew) new grain.
Shmuel: You must help them plow or harvest a bit (so you are entitled to wages). If not, this is a loan of a Se'ah on condition to return a Se'ah, which is forbidden.
Version #2 (Tosfos): There were people who used to pay in advance to receive a greater value of vines after the harvest.
Shmuel: You must make an acquisition in the land now (to acquire the vines). If not, this is a loan, it is forbidden (since loss is not common).
People who guard standing crops used to be paid after the grain was harvested and threshed. They received extra due to the delay.
Rava: (This is Ribis.) You must help a bit at the granary, in order that your work continues until then, for then there is no delay in your wages (to attribute the higher wage to it);
Wages are due to be paid only at the end of the job.
Rabanan (to Rava): You receive Ribis!
We rent fields for four Korim of grain, which we receive in Nisan. You receive six Korim a month later!
Rava: You act improperly!
The land belongs to the renter until the grain fully ripens. You may not make him leave in Nisan!
I receive rental when it is due, in Iyar.
Rav Mari bar Rachel took a house for a Mashkanta from a Nochri, who then sold it to Rava. A year later, Rav Mari gave a year's rent to Rava (for the coming year).
Rav Mari: Within one year, the Nochri could not have removed me from the house even if he paid the loan. From now onwards, I must pay rent.
Rava: Had I known that it was your Mashkanta, I would not have bought it. Now that I know, I take the law of the Nochri (for I am in place of him. Had he not sold to me,) until he paid you, he would not receive rent. I also will not take rent until I force him to pay you. (It is not Ribis for Rav Mari to live there for free, for Rava does not owe anything to him.)
Question (Rava of Barnayish): Rabanan take Ribis! They pay for wine in Tishrei and take it in Teves, and the seller bears the loss if it sours in between!
Answer (Rav Ashi): If it soured in between, that shows that it was not proper wine from the beginning. They paid for wine, not for vinegar!
THE LAW OF THE LAND
Question (Ravina): Before the harvest, I give money for wine. I receive an extra measure. Is this permitted?
Answer (Rav Ashi): Yes. Since there was no Tenai, this is just a gift.
Ravina: The sellers do not own the land. They pay the tax for abandoned land and work it. Is the wine forbidden because the land was stolen?
Rav Ashi: No. The king has rights over the land. He says that whoever pays the land tax, he gets the Peros.
Question (Rav Papa): There are Rabanan who pay the head-tax of people, and make them work for them!
Answer (Rava): The king is master over all his subjects. He says that whoever pays another's head-tax may make the person work for him.
Rav Se'oram (Rava's brother) used to grab indecent people and make them pull Rava's rickshaw.
Support (Rava - Beraisa): If one does not act properly, you may force him to work for you - "l'Olam Bahem Ta'avodu uv'Acheichem" (forever you will work with Kena'ani slaves and with your brothers)";
Suggestion: Perhaps this applies even to someone acting properly!
Rejection: "Uv'Acheichem Bnei Yisrael (you may not work harshly)."
(Rav Chama): If Reuven gave Shimon money to buy wine, and he was negligent and did not, he must give him wine like it sells at the major market (cheaply).
(Rav Zvid of Neharda'a): That is only if he asked for (unspecified) wine. If he asked for a specific wine, he just gets back his money. We do not know if they would have agreed to sell it to him!
(Rav Ashi): Even if he asked for (unspecified) wine, he just gets back his money.
Question: What is the reason?
Answer: Even if he promised to give his wine if he will not buy, this is only Asmachta. There was no acquisition.
Question: What is the difference between this and the following?
(Mishnah): If one rented a field on condition to give a certain amount of (its) Peros, and accepted to pay if he will not work the field, this is binding.
Answer: There, he can surely work the field. Here, there is no guarantee that they would sell to him.