BAVA KAMA 69 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Ms. Estanne Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)The Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheni describes how they used to mark certain areas with different markings to warn people to keep away. Why did they mark ...

1. ... a Kerem Reva'i by surrounding it with clods of earth?

2. ... a Kerem of Orlah by surrounding it with broken pieces of tiles?

3. ... a grave by surrounding it with lime?

(b)What did they used to do with the lime before application?

(c)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel restricts these practices to the Shemitah year. Why is that?

(d)What did the Tzenu'in used to do?

1)

(a)The Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini describes how they used to mark different areas with different markings to warn different people to keep away. They would mark ...

1. ... a Kerem Reva'i by surrounding it with clods of earth as a reminder that just as one could derive benefit from a clod of earth, so too, was one permitted to derive benefit from a Kerem Revai (by redeeming the fruit).

2. ... a Kerem of Orlah by surrounding it with broken pieces of tiles as a reminder that the vineyard, like the broken tiles, was not subject to benefit.

3. ... a grave by surrounding it with lime because the white lime was reminiscent of the dead bones.

(b)Before applying the lime they used to add water, to increase its whiteness.

(c)Raban Shimon ben Gamliel restricts these practices to the Sh'mitah year when people were permitted to enter the fields and the vineyards to take fruit, but not to other years, where entry into private fields was forbidden, and those people who did enter and help themselves were Resha'im who did not deserve assistance to prevent them from sinning.

(d)The Tzenu'in used to put down a sum of money and declare that whatever had already been picked was redeemed on that money.

2)

(a)Why does this Stam Mishnah pose a Kashya on Rebbi Yochanan?

(b)On what grounds do we refute the answer that the author of the Mishnah is Raban Shimon ben Gamliel, in which case it is no longer a Stam Mishnah, but a minority opinion?

(c)How many times in Shas is the Halachah not like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel?

(d)How do we initially amend the Mishnah in order to accommodate Rebbi Yochanan?

2)

(a)This S'tam Mishnah poses a Kashya on Rebbi Yochanan because in his opinion, one cannot declare Hekdesh an article that is not under one's jurisdiction. Therefore, bearing in mind that Rebbi Yochanan always follows the opinion of a S'tam Mishnah, the owner should not be able to redeem Revai fruits which are currently in the Ganav's jurisdiction.

(b)We refute the answer that the author of the Mishnah is Raban Shimon ben Gamliel (in which case it is no longer a S'tam Mishnah but a minority opinion) because even if it is, Rebbi Yochanan tends to follow the opinion of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel, whenever it appears in a Mishnah.

(c)In fact, there are only three cases in the whole of Shas that the Halachah is not like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel ('Arev', 'Tzidon' and 'Re'ayah Acheronah').

(d)Initially, in order to accommodate Rebbi Yochanan, we amend the Mishnah from 'Kol ha'Nilkat' to 'Kol ha'Mislaket' (which means that the owner is declaring the fruit that is going to be picked redeemed on the designated money, in which case the fruit is still in his juristiction (See Tosfos DH 'Eima').

3)

(a)According to Rebbi Yehudah in a Beraisa, the owner would declare Hefker each morning 'Kol she'Yilk'tu' (all Leket that the poor would collect in the course of the day). Why was this necessary? Surely, all Leket is Hefker anyway?

(b)What does Rebbi Dosa say?

(c)What did Rebbi Yochanan say about the Tzenu'in and Rebbi Dosa that refutes our amendment of the Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheni?

(d)We answer that the Beraisa too, needs to be amended, and that we must switch the opinions of Rebbi Dosa and Rebbi Yehudah (in which case Rebbi Dosa and the Tzenu'in both hold 'Kol she'Yilketu' [which is the equivalent of 'Kol ha'Mislaket']). On what grounds do we query this answer?

3)

(a)According to Rebbi Yehudah in a Beraisa, the owner would declare Hefker each morning 'Kol she'Yilk'tu' (all Leket that the poor would collect in the course of the day). This was necessary because, even though all Leket is Hefker anyway, that only pertains to two grains that the man collects. Three is not Hefker, and it is to prevent a poor man, who unwittingly picked up three grains together (or even one of three), that the owner would declare them Hefker. Otherwise, the poor man, believing the grains to be Hefker, would eat them without Ma'asering them (when in reality, it was Tevel).

(b)According to Rebbi Dosa, the owner would say (not 'Kol she'Yilketu' each morning, but) 'Kol ha'Nilkat' in the evening (pertaining to whatever the poor had already picked during the day).

(c)Rebbi Yochanan said that the Tzenu'in and Rebbi Dosa were of the same opinion ('Kol ha'Nilkat'), refuting our amendment of the Mishnah in Ma'aser Sheini (which changed 'Kol ha'Nilkat' to 'Kol ha'Mislaket').

(d)We answer that the Beraisa too, needs to be amended, and that we must switch the opinions of Rebbi Dosa and Rebbi Yehudah (in which case Rebbi Dosa and the Tzenu'in both hold 'Kol she'Yilketu' [which is the equivalent of 'Kol ha'Mislaket']). We query this answer however, on the grounds that in that case, why do we not amend Rebbi Yochanan's statement to read that 'the Tzenu'in and Rebbi Yehudah (and not Rebbi Dosa) say one and the same thing (rather than the two Beraisos)?

4)

(a)We reply that in any event we are forced to switch the opinions of Rebbi Yehudah and Rebbi Dosa, because the stated opinion of Rebbi Yehudah with regard to 'Bereirah' creates a problem with another statement of his in another Beraisa. What does Rebbi Yehudah hold here (by Leket) regarding 'Bereirah'?

(b)Rebbi Meir holds that if someone buys wine from a Kuti late on Friday afternoon, he declares Terumah, Ma'aser and Ma'aser Sheni in advance of the actual separation. But will it not be a matter of Bereirah when he later separates them?

(c)How much does the owner actually separate from a hundred Lugin of wine ...

1. ... for Terumah?

2. ... for Ma'aser Rishon?

3. ... for Ma'aser Sheni?

(d)What do Rebbi Yehudah, Rebbi Yosi and Rebbi Shimon say? To what reasoning do we currently attribute this?

4)

(a)We reply that in any event we are forced to switch the opinions of Rebbi Yehudah and Rebbi Dosa, because the stated opinion of Rebbi Yehudah with regard to 'B'reirah' creates a problem with another statement of his in another Beraisa. If, as we initially quoted him, Rebbi Yehudah holds 'Kol she'Yilketu', then he automatically holds 'Yesh B'reirah'.

(b)Rebbi Meir holds that if someone buys wine from a Kuti late on Friday afternoon, he declares Terumah, Ma'aser and Ma'aser Sheini in advance of the actual separation. Sure it will be a matter of B'reirah when he later separates them but Rebbi Meir holds 'Yesh B'reirah'.

(c)The owner separates from a hundred Lugin of wine ...

1. ... two Lugin for Terumah ...

2. ... ten Lugin (in reality, 9.8 will suffice) for Ma'aser Rishon ...

3. ... and nine, for Ma'aser Sheini.

(d)Rebbi Yehudah, Rebbi Yossi and Rebbi Shimon forbid him to do this, because we currently believe, they hold 'Ein Bereirah'.

69b----------------------------------------69b

5)

(a)We may have now resolved Rebbi Yehudah's statements, having concluded that he holds 'Ein Bereirah'. But we are still faced with a contradiction in Rebbi Yochanan (in whose opinion both the Tzenu'in and Rebbi Dosa hold 'Yesh Bereirah'). What did Rav Asi say in his name regarding brothers who divided their deceased father's property?

(b)So how do we finally conclude in Rebbi Yochanan with regard to 'Kol ha'Nilkat/Mislaket'?

(c)But if the Tzenu'in (who say 'Kol ha'Mislaket') hold 'Yesh Bereirah', how can Rebbi Yochanan hold otherwise (as we ascertained earlier)?

5)

(a)We may have now resolved Rebbi Yehudah's statements, concluding that he holds 'Ein B'reirah'. But we are still faced with a contradiction in Rebbi Yochanan (in whose opinion both the Tzenu'in and Rebbi Dosa hold 'Yesh Bereirah') because Rav Asi says in his name that if brothers divide their deceased father's property, they are like purchasers from one another (since he holds 'Ein B'reirah'), and the property must be redistributed in the Yovel.

(b)We finally conclude that Rebbi Yochanan holds 'Kol ha'Mislaket' ...

(c)... despite the Tzenu'in who hold 'Kol ha'Nilkat because Rebbi Yochanan has the support of our Mishnah (as we shall now see).

6)

(a)How does Rebbi Yochanan extrapolate from our Mishnah 'Ein ha'Gonev Achar ha'Ganav Meshalem Tashlumei Kefel', that the owner cannot declare Hekdesh an article over which he has no jurisdiction?

(b)And how do we reconcile Rebbi Yehudah (whose initial statement of 'Kol she'Yilk'tu' we have reinstated) with his opinion in the Beraisa in Demai, where he forbids the owner to declare Ma'aser on Erev Shabbos and to Ma'aser it on Shabbos after he has drunk part of it? If he holds 'Yesh Bereirah', then why does he forbid it?

(c)How does Rebbi Yochanan extrapolate the opinion of our Stam Mishnah (rather than the Stam Mishnah of Tzenu'in) from the Pasuk "v'Ish Ki Yakdish Es Beiso Kodesh"?

6)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan extrapolates from our Mishnah 'Ein ha'Gonev Achar ha'Ganav Meshalem Tashlumei Kefel', that the owner cannot declare Hekdesh an article over which he has no jurisdiction (i.e. he is not currently considered the owner) from the fact that otherwise, granted he is exempt from paying Kefel to the first Ganav (due to the Pasuk "ve'Gunav mi'Beis ha'Ish"), but why is he Patur from paying the owner?

(b)And we reconcile Rebbi Yehudah (whose initial statement of 'Kol she'Yilk'tu' we have reinstated) with his opinion in the Beraisa in D'mai, where he forbids the owner to declare Ma'aser on Erev Shabbos and to Ma'aser it after he has drunk it (not because he holds 'Ein B'reirah', as we thought until now, but) because of a decree in case the jar which contains the Tevel, breaks before he has managed to Ma'aser the contents, in which case all those who drank from the wine will have drunk Tevel retroactively.

(c)Rebbi Yochanan extrapolate the opinion of our S'tam Mishnah (rather than the S'tam Mishnah of Tzenu'in) from the Pasuk "ve'Ish ki Yakdish es Beiso Kodesh" via the D'rashah 'Mah Beiso bi'Reshuso' (because of the principle 'Karka Einah Nigzeles'), af Kol bi'Reshuso' (precluding the possibility of declaring Hekdesh, Metaltelin over which he has no jurisdiction).

7)

(a)Abaye points out that, had Rebbi Yochanan not equated the opinion of the Tzenu'in with that of Rebbi Dosa, he would have said that Rebbi Dosa (who talks about the poor collecting Leket), disagrees with the Tzenu'in (who talk about a Ganav picking fruit from a Kerem Reva'i). Why is that?

(b)According to him, would the Tzenu'in agree with Rebbi Dosa?

7)

(a)Abaye points out that had Rebbi Yochanan not equated the opinion of the Tzenu'in with that of Rebbi Dosa, he would have said that Rebbi Dosa (who talks about the poor collecting Leket), disagrees with the Tzenu'in (who talk about a Ganav picking fruit from a Kerem Revai) because it is one thing to make a Takanah on behalf of poor people who inadvertently collect what they are not entitled to, but quite another, to make one on behalf of thieves.

(b)The Tzenu'in, on the other hand, agree wholeheartedly with Rebbi Dosa because if they hold that Chazal made a Takanah on behalf of thieves, then they certainly made one for the poor.

8)

(a)In similar style, Rava points out that, were it not for Rebbi Yochanan's statement, he would have established the Tzenu'in like Rebbi Meir, who holds 'Ma'aser Mamon Gavohah Hu'. What do we nevertheless learn from the Pasuk in Bechukosai "v'Im Yig'Al Ish mi'Ma'asro"?

(b)How does Rava then connect the Tzenu'in with Rebbi Meir via the Pasuk in Kedoshim (in connection with Neta Reva'i) "Kodesh Hilulim"?

(c)And what would the Tzenu'in then hold in the case of Rebbi Dosa ('Kol ha'Nilkat)?

(d)Rebbi Yochanan therefore informs us that this is not the case, but that 'Tzenu'in v'Rebbi Dosa Amru Davar Echad'. What are the ramifications of his statement?

8)

(a)In similar style, Rava points out that, were it not for Rebbi Yochanan's statement, he would have established the Tzenu'in like Rebbi Meir, who holds 'Ma'aser Mamon Gavohah Hu'. And we subsequently learn from the Pasuk "ve'Im Yig'al Ish mi'Ma'asro" that even though the Ma'aser belongs to Hekdesh and not to the owner, the Torah considers him the owner (by differentiating between him and someone else who comes to redeem it).

(b)Rava then connects the Tzenu'in with Rebbi Meir via the Pasuk in Kedoshim (in connection with Neta Revai) "Kodesh Hilulim", by means of the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Kodesh" and "ve'Chol Ma'aser ha'Aretz ... Kodesh", to teach us that Neta Revai, like Ma'aser Sheini, is considered the owner's property, even though it is not under his jurisdiction.

(c)The Tzenu'in would then hold that in the case of Rebbi Dosa (who says 'Kol ha'Nilkat ... '), the owner would not have the power to declare his crops Hefker, once they have been picked.

(d)Rebbi Yochanan therefore informs us that this is not so, but that 'Tzenu'in ve'Rebbi Dosa Amru Davar Echad', because these Tana'im hold that one never needs one's articles to be in one's jurisdiction to be considered the owner. Consequently, it even extends to declaring Hefker the Leket which the poor had already collected, too (provided the owner has not despaired from retrieving it).

9)

(a)And in similar style again, Ravina states that, if not for Rebbi Yochanan, he would have established the author of the Beraisa of Tzenu'in as Rebbi Dosa. What would he have gained by doing so?

9)

(a)And in similar style again, Ravina states that, if not for Rebbi Yochanan, he would have established the author of the Beraisa of Tzenu'in as Rebbi Dosa. What he would have gained by doing so is that the Mishnah of Tzenu'in would no longer be a S'tam Mishnah, but an individual opinion, in which case the original Kashya we asked on Rebbi Yochanan would fall away.