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POINT BY POINT OUTLINE

prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim

Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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 Previous NIDAH 11 Next Ask theKollel

1) A VESES DUE TO ONES

(a) (Mishnah): If her first sighting was due to Ones, she is Dayah Sha'atah for her second sighting.

(b) Version #1 (Rav Huna): If she jumped and saw (blood), jumped and saw, jumped and saw, she fixed a Veses.

(c) Question: What kind of Veses did she fix?

(d) Answer #1: She fixed a Veses to see on a certain day.

(e) Rejection: Since she did not see on the day when she did not jump, this is not a Veses!

(f) Answer #2: She fixed a Veses to see after jumping.

(g) Objection (Beraisa): If a woman sees as a result of Ones, even if it happens many times, she does not fix a Veses.

1. Suggestion: She does not fix a Veses at all.

(h) Answer: No, it means that she does not fix a Veses of days by themselves or Ones by itself, but she fixes a combined Veses of days and the Ones.

(i) Objection: Obviously she does not fix a Veses of days by themselves!

(j) Answer (Rav Ashi): The case is, she jumped on Sunday and saw, she jumped on Sunday and saw, she jumped on Shabbos and did not see, then saw on the morrow without jumping. (Rashba - since a Veses is not fixed during the days of Zivah, we must say that three weeks separated the sightings. The Gemara did not elaborate to be precise.)

1. One might have thought that the last sighting proves that the sightings are due to the day, and not the jumping. The Beraisa teaches that this is not so. The jumping helped bring the blood;

i. She did not see on Shabbos because it was not yet time for the jumping to take effect.

(k) Version #2 (Rav Huna): If she jumped and saw, jumped and saw, jumped and saw, she fixed a Veses for days, but not for jumping.

(l) Question: What is the case?

(m) Answer (Rav Ashi): The case is, she jumped on Sunday and saw (blood), she jumped on Sunday and saw, (she jumped on Shabbos and did not see - Gra deletes this from the text), and she saw on Sunday without jumping;

1. This shows that it is due to the day.

2) WHO MUST CHECK HERSELF

(a) (Mishnah): Even though a woman (Rashi - with a Veses) is Dayah Sha'atah, she must check herself (for Taharos), except for a Nidah (during the seven days) or a Yoledes in Yemei Tohar. (On days 8-40 after giving birth to a boy, or days 15-80 after giving birth to a girl, any blood she sees is called Dam Tohar. It is not Metamei her.)

(b) Checks are done at the time of Bi'ah, except for a Yoledes during Dam Tohar or a woman (married for the first time) seeing Dam Besulim.

(c) (If she deals with Taharos,) she must check herself morning and evening, and before Bi'ah. (Ramban - this clarifies that the "checks" mentioned in the previous clause are before and after Bi'ah. One might have thought that it means that both she and her husband check themselves afterwards. Rambam - the previous clause teaches that every woman must check herself after Bi'ah.)

(d) Additionally, a Kohenes must check herself before eating Terumah;

(e) R. Yehudah says, she must check herself also when she finishes eating Terumah.

(f) (Gemara) Question: The Mishnah teaches that a Nidah need not check herself. We understand this according to Reish Lakish, who says that a woman can fix a Veses during the days of Zivah, but not during the (last six) days of Nidah;

1. According to R. Yochanan, who says that a woman can fix a Veses during the days of Nidah (but not during the days of Zivah), she should check. Perhaps she is fixing a Veses!

(g) Version #1 - Answer: R. Yochanan says only that she can finish fixing a Veses during the days of Nidah (i.e. if the first two sightings began Nidah, and the third was during the (last six) days of Nidah), but not if one of the first sightings was during the days of Nidah.

(h) Version #2 - Answer: R. Yochanan says that she can fix a Veses during the days of Nidah only if the blood had stopped and then resumed.

(i) (Mishnah): (Or) a Yoledes in Yemei Tohar (need not check herself. We are thinking that this means that she is about to begin Yemei Tohar.)

(j) Question: We understand according to Rav, who says that Dam Nidah and Dam Tahor come from the same source. Just like the Torah decreed that the former is Tamei, the latter is Tahor;

1. Levi says that they come from different sources. If so, she should check herself. Perhaps she will find that Dam (Nidah) was flowing when Yemei Tohar began. If so, surely the "new" blood is also (from the old source, i.e.) Dam Nidah!

(k) Answer #1: Our Mishnah is Beis Shamai, who say that they come from the same source.

11b----------------------------------------11b

1. Objection: Our Mishnah is Stam (anonymous. Presumably the Halachah follows it.) Will we establish it like Beis Shamai?!

2. Answer: Since Tana'im argue about this in a later Mishnah (34a) in our tractate, we do not assume that the Halachah follows the Stam Mishnah.

(l) Answer #2: The Mishnah says that she is in Yemei Tohar, but not about to begin it.

(m) Objection: If so, obviously she need not check, for even if she sees blood she is Tahor!

(n) Answer: One might have thought that she should check anyway. The sightings can be used to fix a Veses;

1. The Mishnah teaches that she need not check. Sightings of Dam Tahor cannot help make a Veses for Dam Nidah, because they come from different sources.

(o) Question: This is like Levi. According to Rav, they come from the same source. She should check, for perhaps she will fix a Veses!

(p) Answer: Even according to Rav, blood seen during Yemei Tohar cannot help make a Veses for blood seen at other times (when it is Metamei her).

3) WHEN MUST WOMEN CHECK THEMSELVES?

(a) (Mishnah): Checks are done at the time of Bi'ah...

(b) (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): If a girl below the (normal) age to see blood was married for the first time, she is Tehorah for four nights. (We attribute all blood to Dam Besulim);

(c) Beis Hillel say, she is Tehorah until the wound (the breaking of the Besulim) heals.

(d) (Rav Gidal): Beis Hillel is Metaher as long as she sees blood due to every act of Bi'ah, even if she sees at other times but if she has Bi'ah without blood, her next blood is Tamei (in any case);

1. If she does not have Bi'ah one night, and saw afterwards, she is Teme'ah;

2. If she saw blood with a different appearance (than the first time), she is Teme'ah.

(e) Question (R. Yonah): Our Mishnah exempts a woman seeing Dam Besulim from checking (at the time of Bi'ah). She should check, for perhaps the appearance of her blood changed!

1. Counter-question (Rava): The Mishnah contradicts itself. The Reisha exempts only a Nidah or woman in Yemei Tohar from checking, but not a woman seeing Dam Besulim!

(f) Answer to both questions (Rava): If she had Bi'ah (she need not check). Even if the appearance changes, we assume that it is Dam Besulim, and the Ever caused the change;

1. If she did not have Bi'ah (but handles Taharos, she must check). If the appearance changes, she is Teme'ah.

(g) A Beraisa teaches exactly like Rav Gidal.

(h) (Mishnah): She must check herself morning and evening...

(i) (Rav Yehudah citing Shmuel): This is only for the sake of Taharos, but she is permitted to her husband without checking.

(j) Objection: This is obvious. Yisraelim normally do not have Bi'ah during the day. Checking in the morning is surely for the sake of Taharos!

(k) Correction: Shmuel's teaching applies to the next part of the Mishnah;

1. (Mishnah): "... And before Bi'ah."

2. (Rav Yehudah citing Shmuel): This applies only to a woman who deals with Taharos. Since she must check for the sake of Taharos, Chachamim require her to check also for the sake of Bi'ah.

(l) Question: We learn that if she does not deal with Taharos, she need not check for the sake of Bi'ah. We already learn this from a Mishnah!

1. (Mishnah): A woman is Muchzekes to be Tehorah regarding her husband.

(m) Answer: One might have thought that the Mishnah discusses only a woman with a Veses, but if she has no Veses, she must check herself.

(n) Question: Shmuel's teaching applies to our Mishnah, which discusses a woman with a Veses (for it says that Dayah Sha'atah). Shmuel never discussed a woman without a Veses!

(o) Answer: Our Mishnah requires Bedikos for a woman with a Veses, all the more so if she has no Veses. Shmuel's teaching applies to both types of women.

1. The Chidush of our Mishnah is that even though she has a Veses, because she (deals with and) must do Bedikos for Taharos, she must check herself also for Bi'ah.

(p) Question: Shmuel already taught this in a different way!

1. (R. Zeira citing Shmuel): A woman without a Veses must check herself before Bi'ah.

2. We established that this refers to a woman who deals with Taharos!

(q) Answer: Shmuel taught only one of these (Tosfos - the former; Rashbam - the latter). The other was inferred from it.

(r) Support (Beraisa): (Bedikos at the time of Bi'ah) apply to a woman who deals with Taharos, but if she does not, she is permitted to her husband without Bedikos;

1. This is when he left her when she was Tehorah. (Whenever he returns, he may assume that she is Tehorah without asking.) If she was Teme'ah, she is Muchzekes Teme'ah until she tells him that she is Tehorah.

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