1)

METHODS OF ACQUIRING ANIMALS (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 14a)

[דף יד עמוד א (עוז והדר)] משנה בהמה גסה במסירה ובהמה דקה בהגבהה דברי ר' מאיר ור' אלעזר

(a)

(Mishnah - R. Meir and R. Eliezer): A large animal is acquired through mesirah (handing over). A small animal is acquired through hagbahah (lifting).

וחכמים אומרים בהמה דקה נקנית במשיכה:

(b)

Chachamim: A small animal is acquired through meshichah (taking to one's domain).

גמרא רב הונא אמר אין מוסירה קונה בניכסי הגר

(c)

(Gemara - Rav Huna): Mesirah does not acquire the property of a convert (who died without inheritors, as it was not handed over by anyone).

רב חזקיה ר' בא ר' לעזר שאל היו לו עשרה גמלים קשורים זה בזה מסר לו מוסירה של אחת מהן כולהם קנה או לא קנה אלא אותו שמסר לו בלבד

(d)

Question (R. Chizkiyah/ R. Ba/ R. Elazar): If a person had ten camels tied one to the next, if he handed over the reins of one of them, does he acquire all of them or only that animal?

רב חסדא אמר משוך את הבהמה זו לקנותה קנה לקנות וולדותיה לא קנה לקנותה היא וולדותיה קנה

(e)

Rav Chisda: If a person said, "Take and acquire this animal'', he acquires it; "Take it to acquire its offspring'', he does not acquire anything (since he was not acquiring to animal itself). "Take and acquire it and its offspring'', he acquires it.

אילו האומר לחבירו משוך את הבהמה זו שתקנה משוי שלה שמא לא קנה

(f)

Question: (Against the ruling that he does not acquire its offspring) If he said, "Take this animal to acquire only its load'', would he not acquire the load?

א''ר יוסי הדא דתימר בשלא היתה הבהמה עוברה אבל אם היתה עוברה עשו אותה כמשאה

(g)

Answer (R. Yosi): Rav Chisda was referring to when the animal was not pregnant, but if it was, they view it like a load and he would acquire the offspring.

ר' אבא רב הונא בשם רב ההן דנגיד בזקה והיא מבזעה בידה לא חייב בה

(h)

Proof (R. Aba/ Rav Huna citing Rav): If a person made an acquisition of meshichah on a leather bottle of wine and the bottle split open in his hand and the wine was spilt, would he not be responsible for the wine even though he did not intend to acquire the bottle? (So too, if he took the animal to acquire only the load, he acquires only the load.)

אמר ר' יוסי בי ר' בון לכן צריכה אפי' למעלה לגו חנותא דלא איתכוין אלא דלא (יסבה בר) [יזכה בה] חורין

(i)

R.Yosi bei R. Bu n: Rav is teaching that even if he took the bottle merely to take it to his shop so that no-one else should buy it, he has become responsible for it.

[דף יד עמוד ב] מהו שתקנה בשער הפחות

(j)

Question: (If a person said, "Sell me a barrel of wine'' and the seller agreed; if the buyer took the barrel) do we say that he becomes responsible to pay for the wine since he would have been agreeable to a low price (or do we say that he did not intend to acquire it at the time since the price was not yet fixed when he took it)? (Note: See the explanation of the Pnei Moshe.)

אמר ר' חגיי בשם ר' יוסי מתניתא אמרה שאינה נקנית בשער הפחות

(k)

Answer (R. Chagai citing R. Yosi): There is a Mishnah that teaches us that he did not acquire it according to the lowest price...

דתנינן תמן המוכר יינו לנכרי פסק עד שלא מדד דמיו מותרין מדד עד שלא פסק דמיו אסורין

1.

Mishnah (in Maseches Avodah Zarah): (If wine was touched by a gentile or money was paid for a gentile's wine, Chazal decreed a prohibition to benefit from that wine/money) When a Jew sells wine to a gentile, if a price was fixed but the wine was not measured out (i.e. touched by the gentile), the money is still permitted (to the Jew); if it was measured out but the price had not yet been fixed, the money is prohibited.

אם אומר את שתקנה לו בשער הפחות אפילו מדד עד שלא פיסק ויעשה כמי שפיסק עד שלא מדד ויהיו דמיו מותרין

2.

Conclusion of answer: If you say that he acquires it according to the lowest price, even in the latter case the money should be permitted.

שמואל אמר ההין דנסב (בזגיתא) [כזוניתא] והיא מתחטפא מי חייב בה

(l)

Question (Shmuel): If a buyer took a chicken and held it to check it (before the price was fixed) and the chicken flew away, is the buyer responsible even though he did not yet acquire, since he was negligent? (Note: This entry and the next one follow the explanation of the Pnei Moshe.)

אמר רבי שמואל בר אבודמא הדא דתימר [דף יד עמוד ב (עוז והדר)] בצור וחברותיה בקיסרין ובחברותיה ברם הכא עד כדון אורחיה מחזרה למתקלה

(m)

Clarification (R. Shmuel bar Avudama): This doubt is only in big cities like Tzur, Kisarin and similar sized cities (where it is impossible to find and identify the chicken since there are many like it); but here (in a small town), he would certainly be required to chase it until he catches it.

2)

ACQUISITIONS OF VARIOUS ITEMS (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 14b)

רשב''ל בשם רבי ינאי המוכר צאן לחבירו כיון שמסר לו משכוכית קנה

(a)

R. Shimon ben Lakish citing R. Yanai: When a person sells sheep, as soon as he handed over the mashkochis, the buyer acquires the whole flock.

מהו משכוכית

(b)

Question: What is a mashkochis?

אית דאמרין חוטרא ואית דאמרין שרקוקיתה ואית דאמרין נגדתא

(c)

Answer: Some say it is a stick, some say a bell and some say a goat (that leads the flock).

ר' יעקב בר אחא רבי שמעון בר אבא בשם רבי יהושע בן לוי המוכר בור לחבירו כיון שמסר לו דליו קנה

(d)

R. Yaakov bar Acha/ R. Shimon bar Aba citing R. Yehoshua ben Levi: When a person sells a pit, as soon as he handed over the bucket, the buyer acquires it.

ר' אמי בשם ר' יוחנן המוכר בית לחבירו [דף טו עמוד א] כיון שצבר לתוכו קנייו

(e)

R. Ami citing R. Yochanan: When a person sells a house, as soon as the seller piled up the buyer's produce in the house, the buyer acquires it (through making a chazakah).

רבי יודה בן פזי בעי מסר לו את המפתח מהו

(f)

Question (R. Yuda ben Pazi): Does the buyer also acquire it through the seller handing him the key?

אמר רבי זכריה חתניה דרבי לוי מחלוקת רבי שמעון וחכמים

(g)

Answer (R. Zecharyah son-in-law of R. Levi): It is a dispute between R. Shimon and the Chachamim...

דתנינן תמן המוסר מפתח לעם הארץ הבית טהור שלא מסר לו אלא שמירת המפתח

1.

Mishnah in Maseches Taharos: One who gives his house key to an ignoramus (who is not careful with the laws of tumah and taharah), the (contents of the) house remains tahor, as he only gave him the key to guard.

תני רבי שמעון מטמא

2.

Beraisa: R. Shimon says that the (contents of the) house is tameh. (By giving him the key, it is as if he has given him permission to go throughout the house; so too in a sale, giving him the key signifies the buyer taking possession of the house.)

רבי אבהו בשם רשב''ל המוכר מעשרות שדהו לחבירו לא עשה כלום

(h)

R. Abahu citing R. Shimon ben Lakish: If a person sells 1/10th of the fruits that his field will produce, he has done nothing (as one cannot sell something that does not yet exist).

ולד שפחתו לחבירו לא עשה כלום עוברי בהמתו לחבירו לא עשה כלום אויר חרבתו לחבירו לא עשה כלום

1.

This ruling also applies to selling the offspring of one's slave woman, the offspring of one's animal and the air of one's fallen house (as one cannot sell something that has no substance).

אלא מוכר שדהו ומשייר מעשרותיה מוכר לו שפחה ומשייר לו וולדה מוכר לו בהמה ומשייר לו וולדה מוכר לו חורבה ומשייר לו אוירה

(i)

However, one can sell his field and retain 1/10th for himself, sell his slave woman and retain the offspring for himself, sell his animal and retain the offspring for himself and sell his fallen house and retain the air for himself.

והיך איפשר לו לאדם למכור אויר חרבתו לחבירו

(j)

Question: But how could a person actually sell the air of his fallen house?

תיפתר באומר לו תלוש מן החרבה הזו שתקנה אחד מעשר שבה וכא קרקע לפניו שהוא אומר לו תלוש מן הקרקע הזה שיקנה לך אחד מעשר שבו

(k)

Answer: The seller says, "Pick something (e.g a weed) from the (ground of the) fallen house, (thereby improving the house), and acquire 1/10th of it'' (thereby also acquiring the air). Here also, concerning 1/10th of the fruits, this type of acquisition is possible, by saying, "Pick from the field and acquire 1/10th of it''.

רבי שמואל ורבי זעירא רבי חייה בר אשי בשם רב אין משיכה קונה בחצר שאינה של שניהן

(l)

R. Shmuel/ R. Zeira/ R. Chiya bar Ashi citing Rav: Acquisition through meshichah does not work in a courtyard that belongs to neither of them (as it is viewed like a public domain, where meshichah does not work).

תני רבי חייה ופליג

(m)

The Beraisa of R. Chiya disagrees with this...

אימתי אמרו המטלטלין ניקנין במשיכה ברשות הרבים או בחצר שאינה של שניהן

1.

Beraisa: Where are movables acquired through meshichah? In a public domain or in a courtyard that belongs to neither of them.

אבל ברשות הלוקח כיון שקיבל עליו זכה

2.

But in the buyer's domain, as soon as the seller agreed to the price, the buyer acquires it (without the need for meshichah).

ברשות המוכר לא קנה עד שעה שיגביה או עד שעה שימשוך ויוצא חוץ רשות הבעלים

3.

And in the seller's domain, the buyer cannot acquire it until he lifts it or does meshichah (draws it) out of the owner's domain.

ברשות זה שהן מופקדין אצלו לא קנה עד שיזכה הוא בהן או עד שישכור לו את מקומו

4.

In the domain of the one with which the seller deposited the produce, the buyer only acquires it when he actually lifts it or removes it from that domain, or when he rents that area of land from the owner of the land.

3)

MESHICHAH ON A SMALL OR LARGE ANIMAL (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 15a)

וחכ''א בהמה דקה נקנית במשיכה

(a)

The Mishnah above taught: Chachamim say that a small animal is acquired through meshichah.

מה טעמון דרבנין (שמות יב) משכו וקחו לכם צאן למשפחותיכם

(b)

What is the Rabbanan's source? The pasuk states (Shemos 12, 21), "Take and (thereby) acquire for yourselves one of the flock for your families''.

[דף טו עמוד א (עוז והדר)] כי הא דרב יהודה שלח לשאול בהמה גסה במה היא נקנית

(c)

This is like the question that Rav Yehuda sent to be asked in the Study Hall - how is a large animal acquired?

א''ל במסירה

1.

Answer: Through mesirah (handing over).

א''ל ולא מתניתא היא בהמה גסה נקנית במסירה

2.

Then they asked him: Is it not explicitly written in the Mishnah (above 25-1) (b)) - A large animal is acquired through mesirah...?

אית תניי תני מיחלף

3.

Answer: There are tanaim who have a different text and say that one could also acquire it through meshichah. (Rav Yehuda wished to clarify whether mesirah is the only method or whether meshichah is also allowed.)

4)

OTHER QUESTIONS POSED BY RAV YEHUDAH TO R. ELAZAR (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 15a)

רב יהודה שאל לר' אלעזר בכור שנטרף בתוך שלשים

(a)

Question (Rav Yehudah to R. Elazar): What is the law of a firstborn son that became a tereifah (unable to live) within 30 days of his birth? (Do we say that without this accident he would have lived 30 days, so he is not considered 'a stillborn' who would be exempt from redemption of the firstborn; or do we say that as a result of this accident, he will not live until 30 days so he has become exempt?)

א''ל כמה שמת ופטור מחמת סלעים של בן

(b)

Answer (R. Elazar): It is as if he is dead and he is exempt from the redemption.

רב יהודה שלח שאל לר' אלעזר שילייא שיצאת מקצתה היום ומקצתה למחר

(c)

Question (Rav Yehudah to R. Elazar): If a placenta came out partially on one day and partially on the next day (the mother must observe days of impurity for childbirth, since there cannot be a placenta without a foetus and the foetus must have dissolved inside the mother. But from which day does she count them)?

א''ל אם לדם טהור מונה מיום הראשון ואם לדם טמא מונה מיום שני

(d)

Answer (R. Elazar): For 'pure blood', she counts from the first day; for 'impure blood' she counts from the second day. (A woman who gives birth must count 7 impure days for a boy, followed by 33 days of 'pure blood' i.e. when her menstrual blood is pure; for a girl, she keeps 14 days of impurity followed by 66 days of 'pure blood' - here, due to doubt, we are stringent in the application of these 2 laws.)

א''ר מתניה הדא [דף טו עמוד ב] דתימר בשלא יצא עמה וולד אבל אם יצא עמה וולד בין לדם טוהר בין לדם טמא אינה מונה אלא משעת יציאת הולד

(e)

R. Matanya: This only applies when it was not accompanied by a foetus; if it was, whether for pure blood or impure blood, she only counts from when the foetus came out.

5)

A WATCHMAN WHO HANDED OVER TO ANOTHER WATCHMAN (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 15b)

רב יהודה שלח לרבי אלעזר שומר שמסר לשומר

(a)

Question (Rav Yehudah to R. Elazar): If a watchman handed over the item to another watchman (and the item became damaged; which watchman must pay)?

א''ל הראשון חייב

(b)

Answer (R. Elazar): The first is liable (since he was appointed by the owner to guard it - although afterwards, the first could demand repayment from the second).

רבי יוחנן אמר הראשון חייב

1.

R. Yochanan: The first is liable.

רשב''ל אמר השני חייב

2.

R. Shimon ben Lakish: The second is liable.

תמן תנינן השוכר פרה מחבירו והשאילה לאחר ומתה כדרכה ישבע השוכר שמתה כדרכה והשואל משלם לשוכר

(c)

Mishnah in Maseches Bava Metzia: One who rented a cow and lent it to someone and it died whilst being used in the regular way, the renter makes an oath that it died in the regular way (since a renter is exempt from accidental loss) and the borrower must pay the renter (since a borrower is liable for accidental loss).

אמר רבי יוסה כיצד הלה עושה סחורה בפרתו של זה אלא תחזור פרה לבעלים

1.

R. Yosi: How can the renter earn from a cow that does not belong to him? Rather, the payment of the borrower should be paid to the owner.

רבי אילא בשם רבי ינאי והוא שנתן לו רשות להשאיל אבל אם לא נתן רשות להשאיל לא בדא

(d)

R. Ila citing Rav Yanai: This applies only if the owner gave permission to the renter to lend it, but if not, the renter cannot exempt himself with an oath.

ותני רבי חייה כן אין השואל רשאי להשאיל ולא השוכר רשאי להשכיר ולא השואל רשאי להשכיר ולא השוכר רשאי להשאיל ולא מי שהופקד אצלו רשאי להפקיד אצל אחר אלא אם כן נטלו רשות מן הבעלים וכולן ששינו שלא מדעת הבעלים חייבין

(e)

Support (R. Chiya's Beraisa): A borrower cannot lend, nor can a renter rent out, nor can a borrower rent out, nor can a renter lend, nor can one entrusted to watch an item give the item to another to watch, unless he was given permission by the owner. If any of these people changed from the intent of the owner, he is liable for accidental loss.

ושואל אפילו לא שינה חייב

(f)

Question: A borrower is liable for accidental loss even if he did not change from the owner's intent?!

אלא בגין דתנינן תמן מתנה שומר חנם להיות פטור משבועה והשואל להיות פטור מלשלם אתא מימר לך אפי' התנה עמו שהוא פטור חייב

(g)

Answer: Since there is a Mishnah (in Bava Metzia) that teaches that an unpaid watchman can stipulate that he will be exempt from an oath (if he claimed that the item was lost or stolen and would usually be required to make an oath in order to be exempt from payment) or a borrower that he will be exempt from paying for accidental loss; one might have said that even if he made such a stipulation with the owner but he then made a change by lending it to someone else, he would be liable. (Note: This follows the explanation of the Pnei Moshe in the parallel sugya in Yerushalmi Kesubos Daf 54b.)

ביקש להשביע את השואל

(h)

Question: (An animal owner rented out his animal and agreed that the renter is exempt from an oath in case of death of the animal. If, with the permission of the owner, the renter lent it out and the animal died,) can the owner require the borrower to make an oath?

(נשבע) [נשמע] מן הדא כתב לה נדר ושבועה אין לי עלייך אינו יכול להשביעה אבל משביע הוא את יורשיה ואת הבאים ברשותה

(i)

Answer (Mishnah in Maseches Kesubos): If a man wrote a document to his wife saying, "I cannot require from you any vow or oath (that you have not taken any payment of your Kesubah money)'', he cannot require an oath. But if she died, he can require an oath from her inheritors or others who are demanding her Kesubah payment.

הדא אמרה שאם ביקש להשביע את השואל שהוא משביעו

1.

This shows that the owner can require the borrower to make an oath.

[דף טו עמוד ב (עוז והדר)] וההיא ילפה מן הדא שאם ביקש להשביע את האשה שהוא משביעה

2.

And the case of Kesubah is learned from the case of the renter here, that if the husband did not exempt his wife from an oath, he can require her to make an oath, just as an animal owner can require a renter to make an oath.

א''ר חנינה לא צריכה מילף חדא מן ההיא

(j)

Rejection (R. Chanina): This law does not need to be learned from the case of the owner and renter; it is clear from the Mishnah in Kesubos itself, that taught that he can release her from any requirement to make an oath - this shows that usually he could require it.

ומה צריכה מילף ההיא מן הדא כיי דמר ר' הילא בשם ר' ינאי והוא שנתן לו רשות לשואל והכא שנתן לה רשות שיהו בניה אפיטרופין

1.

The law that must be learned from that case was said by R. Hila citing R. Yanai - when the owner gave permission to lend it out. Here also, the husband gave permission for her children to act as guardians. However, if he had not given permission, even if the husband had exempted her from making an oath, he can still require it since she made a change.

א''ר יוסה צריך להעלות לו שכר כל זמן שהיא שכורה אצלו

(k)

R. Yanai said earlier (see (d)) that if the owner did not give the renter permission to lend it, the renter is liable for accidental damage. R. Yosa said - the renter must pay him rent for the entire rental period.

רבי זעירא שאל לרבי אבינא שאלוה הבעלים ומתה

(l)

Question (R. Zeira to R. Avina): If the owner himself borrowed the animal from the renter and it died, what is the law?

אמר ליה כן אנן קיימין אפי' אכלוה

(m)

Answer (R. Avina): The owner must pay even he borrowed it from the renter and ate it.

אמר רבי יוסי בי רבי בון שלהם אכלו

(n)

Rejection (R. Yosi bei R. Bun): The owner ate his own property, so he should be exempt!

רבי זעירא בעא קומי רבי יסא היך עבדין עובדא

(o)

Question (R. Zeira to R. Yosa): What is the Halacha when a watchman handed over to another watchman?

א''ל תריי כל קביל ארבעה לא עבדין עובדא בסוגייא

(p)

Answer (R. Yosa): There are two (R. Yehudah and Raish Lakish who say that the second is liable) against four (R. Elazar, R. Yanai, R. Chiya and R. Yochanan who say that the first is liable). Should we not follow the four?

אמר ליה תריי כל קביל תריי אינון ר' לעזר תלמידיה דרבי חייה רבא ר' יוחנן תלמידיה דרבי ינאי

(q)

Refutation (R. Zeira): It is really two against two as R. Elazar is a student of R. Chiya and R. Yochanan is a student of R. Yanai.

6)

WHEN BROTHERS INHERITED AFTER ONE DIED (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 15b)

רב יהודה שלח שאל לרבי לעזר האחין שחלקו ואחר כך ייבם אחד מהן

(a)

Question (Rav Yehudah to R. Elazar): If brothers inherited the estate of their father and then one died and the others divided the estate, if one of them then performed yibum - do we say that although the inheritance was divided before the yibum, upon performing yibum he receives back the entire estate of the dead brother (as is usually the case when a brother performs yibum)? Or alternatively, since at the time that they divided, all of the brothers were suitable to do yibum, they all received equal portions of the brother's estate?

אמר ליה (כניכסי) [זכו] כולם (כ)[ב]ניכסי המת

(b)

Answer (R. Elazar): All receive equal portions in the dead brother's estate.

עולא בר ישמעאל אמר מצוית דעתיה על דרבי לעזר ולא שנייא היא שחלקו ואחר כך ייבם אחד מהן היא שייבם אחד מהן [דף טז עמוד א] ואחר כך חלקו זכו כולן בניכסי המת

(c)

Ula bar Yishmael: R. Elazar has aligned his understanding to that of Raish Lakish...and there is no difference whether they first divided and then he performed yibum or vice-versa.

ולמה [לא] אמר ליה

(d)

Question: So why did R. Elazar not express this in his answer (that it actually applies to both cases)?

מה דשאליה אגיבה

(e)

Answer: He answered the question that he was asked.

ולמה לא שאלו לה

(f)

Question: So why did R. Yehudah not also ask it (i.e. when there was first yibum and then they divided)?

דא''ר אבינא בשם רבי אסי בכור שחלק בפשוט חזקה וויתר

(g)

Answer (R. Avina citing R. Asi): If a firstborn received an equal portion as his brothers in his father's estate (even though the Torah awards him double portion) he has waived his claim on the double portion. (Since the case of first yibum and then division is also referred to as a case of a firstborn - as the Torah states that the yavam will take the place of his firstborn brother - it is obvious that he has waived his claim and that all receive equal portions in the dead brother's estate.

7)

WHEN BROTHERS DIVIDE THEIR FATHER'S ESTATE (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 16a)

[דף טז עמוד א (עוז והדר)] רב יהודה שלח שאל לרבי לעזר האחין שחלקו

(a)

Question (Rav Yehudah to R. Elazar): If brothers were partners in their father's estate and they later wish to divide it, what do they divide?

אמר ליה חולקין מה שעליהן ואין חולקין לא מה שעל בניהן ולא מה שעל בנותיהן

(b)

Answer (R. Elazar): They divide even the clothes on their backs, but not the clothes on the backs of their children.

רבי אימי אומר העושה שום לב(י)תו מביאין שום (לעצמן) לאמצע וחולקין

(c)

R. Imi: If one had clothes made for his wife and they have a significant value, when the children come to divide their late father's estate, they also include these clothes in the division. (Note: This entry and the next one follow the explanation of the Pnei Moshe.)

העושה קטלא לביתו אין מביאין לאמצע וחולקין

(d)

If one had a katala (a piece of jewellery that looks like a choker) made for his wife, it is not brought to divide amongst the inheritors (as they are assumed to relinquish their right to it).

בראויה להשתמש בחול אבל בראויה להשתמש ברגל מביאין לאמצע וחולקין

1.

This applies to jewellery that is suitable for weekday use, but if it is (so expensive that it is) only suitable for use on festivals, it is divided amongst the inheritors.

רבי מנא אמר כלי רגל חולקין כלי שבת צריכא

(e)

R. Mana: Clothing for festivals is divided, but clothing for Shabbos is questionable.

רבי אבין פשיטא ליה בין כלי רגל בין כלי שבת מביאין לאמצע וחולקין

(f)

It was clear to R. Avin that both festival and Shabbos clothing are divided.

ר' זעירא בעא קומי ר' מנא אילין בולסייא

(g)

Question (R. Zeira to R. Mana): Are glass mirrors also divided?

אמר ליה חכים את דאית לך בולסיין סגין אמר ליה מביאין וחולקין

(h)

Response (R. Mana): It is clear that you have many glass mirrors and that is why you are asking me. They are also divided.

רב יהודה שלח שאל לרבי לעזר מהו לגבות מן העבדים כקרקעות

(i)

Question (R. Yehudah to R. Elazar): One can collect a debt of a father only from the fields of the orphans but not from the movables. Is a slave viewed as a field (or as a movable object) in this law?

אמר ליה גובין מן העבדים כקרקעות

(j)

Answer (R. Elazar): Slaves are like fields i.e. it is permitted to collect them as payment.

הורי רבי לעזר לאילין דבית רבי ינאי לגבות מן העבדים כקרקעות

(k)

R. Elazar instructed the House of R. Yanai to collect slaves like fields.

רב יהודה שלח שאל לרבי אלעזר האנס והגזלן והגנב

(l)

Question (R. Yehudah to R. Elazar): A coercer, a thief or a burglar who took an animal and it died, or utensils and they broke, do we evaluate the carcass or broken utensils, give those items to the owner and reduce their value from the payment that must be given to the owner?

אמר ליה חזקה שאין הבעלים מיטפלין במיתה

(m)

Answer (R. Elazar): The assumed position is that the owner does not deal with the carcass. Rather, it belongs to the thief and the full value of the animal/utensils must be paid to the owners.

ומניין שאין הבעלים מיטפלין במיתה

(n)

Question: What is the source for this assumed position?

אמר רבי בא בר ממל (שמות כב) חיים שנים ישלם ולא מתים

(o)

Answer (R. Ba bar Mamal): The pasuk states (Shemos 22, 3), "...he must pay double'' the live value of the animal but not its dead value.

עד כדון גניבה גזילה

(p)

Question: This only explains a burglar, but what about a thief?

אמר ר' אבון (ויקרא ה) והשיב את הגזילה אשר גזל בעיינה:

(q)

Answer (R. Avun): The Pasuk states (Vayikra 5, 23), "He shall return the stolen item that he stole'' - when it still exists, as he stole it; but if it died, he must pay the full equivalent value.