More Discussions for this daf
1. Umbrellas and the definition of a "tent" 2. חוששין למראית העין 3. Tosfos
4. Sukah Decorations in a Sukah of Ten Tefachim 5. Removing spoiled Sukah decorations 6. A small tent inside a Sukah
7. "Ika Beinaihu" in the Sugya of Ein Di'urin 8. Tosfos 9. Sukah decorations
10. From Outlines 11. Sukah under an Ohel 12. Definition of Sukah
13. חוששין למראית העין
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SUKAH 10

asked:

(a) So what kind of 2-pole tent does not have 1 square tefach within 3 tefachim of the top?

(b) Are you saying that if one makes a portable tent that does not have 1 square tefach within 3 tefachim of the top, it can be used on Shabbos?

(c) If it is a different standard for Sukkah then for Shabbos, and a 2-pole tent is really allowed, then why don't I ever see a 2-pole tent used in the Sukkah when it rains?

(d) Is it correct that one makes a bracha to sit in the Sukkah if one is under the 2-pole tent?

(e) Isn't it preferred to make a bracha under the 2-pole tent, than to leave the Sukkah?

(If any of these were discussed in your mailings I'm sorry, I lost a lot of

stuff)

Thanks,

Gedaliah

The Kollel replies:

(a) Any tent (such as a sheet hung over a rod, held up by two poles at each end) with an angle at the top small enough so that the distance between the two sides of the sheet does not reach one Tefach within three Tefachim from the top. The Tefach must be square, meaning that it must be at least a full Tefach in both its length and width.

(b) That is what the Gemara in Shabbos (138b) says (see there for all of the conditions needed to permit making such a tent on Shabbos).

(c) The definition of a tent is the same for both Shabbos and Sukah. If it does not meet the requirements to be defined as a tent, then one may indeed sit underneath it in one's Sukah, as the Gemara here (and on 11a) says, and as the SHULCHAN ARUCH (OC 627:2) rules. However, one is not obligated to do so in order to sit in the Sukah while it is raining, because it is not so comfortable (and one who is Mitzta'er is Patur from the Sukah; indeed, the only case discussed in the Gemara of residing underneath this quasi-tent inside of a Sukah is sleeping underneath it, as all other activities cannot really be done in such a small space) and it is not Teshvu k'Ein Taduru.

(d) In theory, yes. But practically, it is quite difficult to have a meal underneath such a small quasi-tent, and since the blessing of sitting in a Sukah is recited only for eating a meal and not for sleeping (see SHULCHAN ARUCH OC 639:8), it would not be feasible to recite a Berachah beneath the quasi-tent.

(e) See answers to (c) and (d) above. It could be that if someone indeed is as comfortable sitting underneath such a tent (which does not have more than a Tefach of space in its roof, nor is there a Tefach within three Tefachim of its tops) as he is while sitting normally in his Sukah, and the rain falling around him does not bother him, then perhaps it might be better than leaving the Sukah. However, it is more logical to assume that "Teshvu k'Ein Taduru" would exempt him from Sukah under these circumstances since most normal people do not eat under such conditions.

Y. Shaw