Dear Kollel,

My question is based on the gemara BAVA BASRA 117.

From INSIGHTS INTO THE DAILY DAF, you quote Tosafos as follows:

"TOSFOS (DH Mikan) questions the opinion that a person who was older than 60 received two portions. Yehoshua was older than 60 when he entered Eretz Yisrael, as he led the Jewish people (from the time they entered Eretz Yisrael) for 28 years, and lived to the age of 110. Hence, he was older than 80 when he entered Eretz Yisrael. Kalev was also 80 years old when the Jewish people entered Eretz Yisrael, as is apparent from Kalev's statement (in Yehoshua 14:7) that he was 40 years old when he went with the Meraglim to Eretz Yisrael. However, the verse states that at the census at Arvos Mo'av, "Among these there was no person from the counting of Moshe and Elazar ha'Kohen who was counted with Bnei Yisrael in the Sinai Desert... and no one was left from these people besides Kalev ben Yefuneh and Yehoshua bin Nun" (Bamidbar 26:64-5). If these two were the only ones over 60, the verse's assertion would be correct. However, the sons of Menasheh -- Yair and Machir -- also entered Eret

z Yisrael and were included both in the census at the beginning of the forty-year period in the Midbar and in the census at Arvos Mo'av. How can the verse state that no one other than Kalev and Yehoshua was counted in both censuses?"

When looking at the Tosafos inside it is even more clear that all the census' that were taken of klal yisroel counted those who were above 20 and even above 60. Tosafos explain that the limud from erchin that is used on daf 121, which states that the decree of death in the desert was for those ages between 20 and 60 is not applied to the census and that the census included 20 and up, even those above 60(which is really what the pasuk says mi'Ben Esrim Shanah va'Ma'alah).

v'Lo Gamrinan mi'Erechin k'd'Gamrinan l'Kaman d'Lo Nigzerah Al Ben Shishim m'Erechin Af Al Gav d'Ksiv b'Minyan Shel Yisrael mi'Ben Esrim Shanah va'Ma'alah Lo Gamrinan Ma'alah mi'Erechin u'mi'd'Nimnu b'Arvos Moav Yeserim mi'Shishim Nimnu Kemo Ken b'Midbar Sinai

Why is it, then, that people assume the census was between 20 and 60? For example the Gur Aryeh in Shemos 30:13 states explicitly that the census was between ages 20 to 60. Also, if you look in the Artscroll Stone Chumash, parashas Bamidbar 1:3, it states: "It is evident from the Talmud that men older than 60 were not included in the census(Bava Basra 121b), But as Tosafos says, the gemara on 121b is referring only to the decree of death!

In addition, if you look at Tosafos on daf 121 d.h "Yom Shekalu" (bava basra) and Tosafos in maseches Ta'anis daf 30a, d,h. "yom sh'bo", it seems clear from the different calculations of the 15,000 and protrot or 16,0000 or 21,000 etc, that the calculation is being made in order to equal the number 603,550 of bnei yisroel that died in the desert. This was the number of the original census. So here Tosafos is equating the ones who died in the desert with the number of men counted in the census!

Yasher koach on your website and the help that it porvides. I would very much appreciate it if you could clarify this inyun.

Thank you,

Donny Wartenberg, USA