More Discussions for this daf
1. Translations of Kisvei Kodesh 2. query re sources 3. Reading grammar books and lexicons on Shabbos
4. Saving a Samartian Torah 5. Is there a Mitzva of Agmas Nefesh on Yom Kippur 6. Samaritan Torah
7. Beraisa of R. Hamnuna 8. Identities - Yochanan ha'Nazuf
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 115

Meir Stone asked:

"MISHNAH: ALL SACRED WRITINGS MAY BE SAVED FROM A FIRE, WHETHER WE READ THEM OR NOT;"

Should we save the Samartian Torah from a fire since it has the divine name in it? Even though it is very different from the Torah holy to us?

B'Shalom Meir

Meir Stone, USA

The Kollel replies:

The holiness of the divine name of Hash-m is dependent on the person writing the name. If the writer is an Apikorus, the Halachah is clear in the Shulchan Aruch (Y.D. 281:1) that not only would we not save a Sefer Torah that he wrote from a fire on Shabbos, but we are commanded to burn it. If the person is merely a non-Jew, it must be put in Genizah.

It is therefore clear that any book written by someone who is an idol worshipper, Kal v'Chomer a book of Avoda Zara, would not be saved from a fire on Shabbos even if it has the name of Hash-m. It is unclear whether or not this applies to Tzedukim and Beitusim who write a Torah, as the Shulchan Aruch uses the word Apikorus, which is used in both a limited (idol worshipper) and broad (i.e. doesn't believe in Oral Torah) manner. This seems to be an argument among the Poskim (see Gilyon Maharsha ibid. and Pischei Teshuvah ibid. who discuss whether or not a Tzeduki is included in this Halachah).

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose

Samuel Kosofsky comments:

It is not clear to me whether the Samaritans are in the same category as the Tzedukim and B'tusim. They were called kushim or kutim in the Gemara and their status as gerim or gerei arayos depended on what period in history we meant. Today's Samaritans do not seem to be idol worshippers but they certainly don't have our Torah sh'baal peh and don't have most of the Neviim. Except for the Torah they only have sefer Yehoshua. I'm not sure what their status in halacha is but I doubt if we are permitted to marry them and I don't know what the status of their ancient sefer Torah is to us or how authentic it is. There are not too many of them left and they're very inbred and have all sorts of genetic problems from that inbreeding.

Perhaps someone in the kollel knows their status?

B'kavod,

Samuel Kosofsky

The Kollel replies:

Dear Shmuel

The status of the Samaritans today is that of a non-Jew. However, they do not fit in the category of a Min, since they believe in Hashem.

Their Sefer Torah is written in ancient Hebrew script, and often differs from our Sefer Torah. It therefore does not have the Kedusha of a Sefer Torah but probably requires Genizah.

Kol tuv,

Yehuda Landy

Yoel Keren asks:

We ultimately hold that Samaritans are Goyim, do we not? How then, can we answer this question by quoting halachos that clearly apply to Jewish sects such as the Tzedukim?

The Kollel replies:

The text quoted above does not refer primarily to Tzedukim and Beitusim, but rather to idol worshippers, including (but not limited to) Nochrim.

Take Care,

Yaakov Montrose