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BAVA KAMA 8

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BAVA KAMA 8 (2 Sivan) - This Daf has been dedicated in memory of Harry Bernard Zuckerman, Baruch Hersh ben Yitzchak (and Miryam Toba), by his children and sons-in-law.

SUMMARY

If the Mazik owns Idiyos and Ziburis the Nizak collects from Idiyos and the Ba'al Chov and the Kesuvah is collected from Ziburis
 
If he owns Beinonis and Ziburis the Nizak and Ba'al Chov collect from Beinonis and the Kesuvah is collected from Ziburis. (1)
 
Ula says that Min ha'Torah a Ba'al Chov collects from Ziburis, however the Rabanan decreed that a Chov is collected from Beinonis so that the door will not be locked on potential borrowers.
 
If a person owes money for Nezikin, a Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells all of his property to one person or to three people at the same time the Nizak collects from Idiyos, the Ba'al Chov from Beinonis and the woman for the Kesuvah collects from Ziburis.
 
If he sold one property after the other to three different people all of his creditors collect from the last property to be sold and if it is not sufficient for all of them they collect from the next to last property to be sold. (2)
 
If he sold one property after another to the same person if the last property that was sold was Ziburis they all collect from Ziburis.
 
If he sold one property after another to the same person and the last property to be sold was Idiyos they all collect the property they would have collected from the debtor. (3)
 
Anyone who is not interested in a decree of the Chachamim that was instituted for his good, such as the decree that a woman is supported by her husband in return for her handiwork, may forgo the decree. (4)
 
If a person owes money for Nezikin, a Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells all of his property to one person and the Idiyos was sold last, if the buyer sold the Beinonis and Ziburis all of the Chovos are collected from the Idiyos. (5)
 
If the buyer sold the Idiyos and kept the Beinonis and Ziburis for himself, the Chov and Kesuvah is collected from the Beinonis and Ziburis that remains in the hands of the first buyer. (6)
 
If Reuven sold all of his properties to Shimon and Shimon sold the Beinonis to Levi the Ba'al Chov has the choice to collect the Beinonis from Levi or the Ziburis from Shimon. (7)
 
If Shimon sold the Idiyos and Ziburis to Levi the Ba'al Chov collects from the Beinonis that remained in the hands of Shinon.
 
If Shimon sold one Beinonis to Levi but he still has another Beinonis that he bought from Reuven the Ba'al Chov may only collect from the Beinonis in the hands of Shimon and he may not collect from the Beinonis in the hands of Levi. (8)
 
If Reuven sold a field to Shimon with a guarantee and the Ba'al Chov of Reuven attempts to take the field from Shimon, Reuven has the right to make a claim in an attempt to keep the field in the hands of Shimon. (9)
 
Some say that even if Reuven sold the field to Shimon without a guarantee Reuven has the right to make a claim because he can say that I don't want that he will have a grievance against me.

A BIT MORE

1. However another Beraisa states differently that the Ba'al Chov collects from Ziburis, not from Beinonis. The Gemara gives a few different explanations for the discrepancy between the Beraisos. According to first Peshat the Beraisa that states that the Ba'al Chov collects from Beinonis is referring to a case that he originally had Idiyos and than he sold it after he borrowed the money so the Beinonis was Meshu'abad to the Ba'al Chov. Alternatively according to the opinion that we judge Idiyos by what others regard as Idiyos the Ba'al Chov collects from the Beinonis if it is a Karka that is regarded by others as Beinonis, if the Karka is regarded by others as Idiyos the Ba'al Chov may not collect from it and he collects instead from Ziburis. Alternatively the Beraisa which
 
states that the Ba'al Chov collects from Beinonis holds like Ula that even though Min ha'Torah a Ba'al Chov collects from Ziburis the Rabanan decreed that a Ba'al Chov collects his Chov from Beinonis.
 
2. The Halachah is that a Ba'al Chov may not collect from a property that was sold if the debtor still owns some property that he has not sold. Therefore when he sold the first property the Shibud for the Chov is completely on the remaining property that he had not yet sold and even if he subsequently sold that property the Shibud for the Chov remains on that property of he does not have any property left that he has not sold.
 
3. Even though the Shibud for the Chov was on the last property to be sold which is the Idiyos , however that which a Ba'al Chov may not collect from the last property to be sold is a decree of the Chachamim for the benefit of the buyer and in the case that the buyer bought the Idiyos last and he does not want to pay all of them with Idiyos it is not for his benefit and therefore he can say since the decree of the Chachamim is for my benefit I am not interested in the decree of the Chachamim in this case.
 
4. The Chachamim decreed that a woman is supported by her husband in return for her handiwork as a benefit to the woman since often her handiwork is not sufficient to support herself; since the decree was for her benefit if her handiwork is worth more than the cost of supporting her she can waive her right to support from her husband and keep the handiwork for herself.
 
5. Since the Idiyos was bought last the Shibud for all of the Chovos is on the Idiyos. In this case he cannot say that he is forfeiting the decree of the Chachamim because since he sold the Beinonis and Ziburis he may not forfeit the decree at someone else's expense.
 
6. Even though the Idiyos was the last field that was bought by the first buyer, however since if he had not sold the Idiyos he had the right to forfeit the decree of the Chachamim and the debts would have been collected from Beinonis and Ziburis when the second buyer bought the Idiyos he also bought the right to forfeit the decree of the Chachamim and make them collect from Beinonis and Ziburis even though he does not have the Beinonis and Ziburis because when a person sells property he sells it with all of the same rights that he had when he was the owner of the property.
 
7. Although a Ba'al Chov collects from Beinonis, however he has the right to collect Ziburis from Shimon because he can say that since you bought all of the properties from Reuven you are in his place and I may collect from you without going to Levi.
 
8. Because Levi can say I left a Beinonis in the hands of Shimon for that reason so that you will have a land that you can collect from without collecting from me.
 
9. The Ba'al Chov cannot say that you are not my Ba'al Din because Reuven could respond that if it gets taken from him he will demand payment from me.

BRIEF INSIGHT

IN PLACE OF THE DEBTOR
 
If Reuven sold all of his properties to Shimon and Shimon sold the Beinonis to Levi the Ba'al Chov has the choice to collect the Beinonis from Levi or the Ziburis from Shimon. The Rosh says that he may collect the Ziburis from Shimon even though the Din a Ba'al Chov collects Beinonis not Ziburis because he can say to Shimon that you are my Ba'al Din because you bought all of the lands that belonged to Reuven. Now that you sold the Beinonis I have no interest in making the effort to making a claim on that Karka from Levi and instead I will collect from the Ziburis that is in your hands. Even though normally the Ba'al Chov may not force the borrower to pay him with Ziburis in this case he has the right to demand Ziburis because Shimon distanced the Beinonis from him by selling it to a third person. If Shimon sold both the Ziburis and the Beinonis and all he has left is the Idiyos the Ba'al Chov may collect from the Idiyos in the hands of Shimon even though it is a better Karka than what a Ba'al Chov normally has the right to collect.

QUICK HALACHAH

COLLECTING FROM LEKUCHOS
 
If someone has Idiyos Beinonis and Ziburis and he owes money for Nezikin a Ba'al Chov and a Kesuvah and he sells the property to three different people on the same day the Nezikin collect from Idiyos, the Ba'al Chov collects from Beinonis and the Kesuvah collects from Ziburis. If when he attempts to collect from one of the buyers the buyer claims that you cannot collect from me because I bought the land after the other two buyers, according to some opinions that we listen to him and he may not collect from him mi'Safek. However others say that since it is not discernible from the Shtar which one bought the land first because the time of the day is not written in the Shtar the Kinyan is not Chal until the end of the day. (Shulchan Aruch CM 102:4)

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