REVACH L'DAF

brought to you by Kollel Iyun Hadaf of Yerushalayim
daf@dafyomi.co.il    http://www.dafyomi.co.il
& Revach l'Neshamah - http://www.revach.net


Previous Daf
BAVA KAMA 115

Ask A
Question

SUMMARY

If someone steals and sells the stolen item and the Ganav becomes known Rav says the owner may not take the stolen object from the buyer without first paying him, while R. Yochanan holds he may take it without paying.
 
R. Yosef says that Rav who says that he must pay the buyer of the stolen object is in a case of Ye'ush, while R. Yochanan who says that he doesn’t have to pay is in a case when there was no Ye'ush and there is no Machlokes. (1)
 
Abaye says that both Rav and R. Yochanan are referring to case when there is no Ye'ush and Rav holds that even before Ye'ush if the owner collects from the buyer he must pay, while R. Yochanan disagrees. (2)
 
R. Zevid says that both Rav and R. Yochanan are referring to case of Ye'ush however the Ye'ush was only after the stolen item was sold; Rav holds that Ye'ush is Koneh even after Shinuy Reshus, while R. Yochanan holds that Ye'ush is only Koneh if it precedes the Shinuy Reshus.
 
R. Papa says that that both Rav and R. Yochanan agree with the Din of R. Chisda and the buyer must give the stolen item to the owner; Rav holds that the buyer collects compensation from the Ganav, while R. Yochanan holds that the buyer collects from the owner because the Rabanan instituted a Takanas ha’Shuk.
 
If someone buys the innards of a cow for a fixed price he must give the Keivah to the Kohen and he may not subtract from the price, however if he paid by weight he may subtract the weight of the Keivah from the price.
 
Rav says that the Kohen may only take the Keivah from the buyer without paying if the buyer took the Keivah himself, but if the butcher gave it to him, the butcher is the Ganav and the Din of the Kohen is with the butcher.
 
If a person buys a stolen item from a known Ganav the Takanas ha’Shuk doesn’t apply and the owner doesn’t have to compensate the buyer when he takes back the stolen item.
 
If the Ganav pays back a debt with the stolen item the Takanas ha’Shuk doesn’t apply since the money was not given originally as payment for the stolen item.
 
If the Ganav gives a stolen object as a Mashkon if the Mashkon is worth two hundred and the loan is worth a hundred the Taknas ha’Shuk applies.
 
If the Mashkon is the same value as the loan Ameimar says that the Takanas ha’Shuk doesn’t apply, while Mar Zutra disagrees.(3)
 
If the stolen object is sold for double its value R. Sheshes says that the Takanas ha’Shuk doesn't apply, while Rava disagrees. (4)
 
If someone steals an object and pays a debt with it and the Ba’al Chov subsequently lend him another sum of money Ravina says that the Takanas ha’Shuk applies only to the amount of the second loan. (5)
 
R. Cohen says that the Takanas ha’Shuk also doesn’t apply to the second loan because maybe the stolen item was not a Mashkon for the loan just as he loaned him the first time without a Mashkon.
 
If a person buys a stolen item for 80 and sells it for 120 if the owner must pay the second buyer 120 and the second buyer collects 40 from the first buyer and the first buyer collects eighty from the Ganav.
 
If a person’s jug of honey cracks and his friend spills out his wine in order to save the honey he only receives wages for his effort. (6)
 
However, if he notifies the owner of the honey that he will save the honey In return for the value of the wine he must be paid for his wine.
 
If a river flooded two donkeys and one was worth 100 and the other is worth 200 and the owner of the less valuable donkey declined a chance to save his donkey in order to save the more valuable donkey he only receives his wages for his effort.
 
However, if he says that he will save the more valuable donkey in return for the value of his own donkey he must be paid for his donkey.
 
If someone has jugs of oil or wine that broke and it is spilling out he may not make it Terumah or Ma’aser for other produce that he has in his house and if he does so it is not effective.
 
If someone is on the road and a bandit is about to steal the money and he can save the money with difficulty he may not use the money to redeem Ma’aser Sheni, however if he does so it is effective.
 
If someone has ten jugs of wine of Ma’aser that is Tevel Tamei and one of them breaks or is left open he may say that it shall be Terumas Ma’aser for the other jugs but if it is oil he may not do so. (7)
 
Water that was left open may not be spilled in the Reshus ha’Rabim, or mixed with cement, or sprinkled around the house or given to an animal to drink. (8)
 
The Tana Kama holds that water that was left open is forbidden even if it was filtered, while R. Nechemia permits it if the utensil with the water was not moved before it was filtered
 
The Tana Kama says that one may separate Terumah from Tamei produce for Tamei produce or from Tahor for Tahor or from Tahor for Tamei but not from Tamei for Tahor.
 
R. Nechemia holds that one may not separate Terumah from Tamei produce for Tamei produce except if it is Demai.

A BIT MORE

1. Both Rav and R. Yochanan agree with the statement of R. Chisda that if a person steals an object prior to Ye'ush the owner may collect the stolen object from the buyer without paying, however if the Ganav is not known the Rabanan made a decree for the benefit of the buyer that the owner must pay him the amount that he paid the Ganav.
 
2. Rav disagrees with R. Chisda who says that if a person steals an object prior to Ye'ush the owner may collect the stolen object from the buyer without paying, while R. Yochanan agrees with R. Chisda.
 
3. Ameimar holds that since it is not usual to lend money with a Mashkon that is not worth more than the loan he was not relying on the Mashkon when he lent the money and therefore the Taknas ha’Shuk doesn’t apply
 
4. R. Sheshes holds that since he paid more than its worth just as the extra is a gift the entire payment is a gift and therefore the Takanas ha’Shuk doesn’t apply.
 
5. The stolen item was worth the amount of both loans and it was given as a payment for the first loan and as a Mashkon for the second loan.
 
6. However, if the honey would have completely spilled out it is Hefker and he may keep it for himself, the Mishnah is referring to a case that the honey was only spilling out drop by drop and therefore it is not Hefker.
 
7. Wine of Terumah that is Tamei has little value because it may not be drunk and the only use that is has is for Ziluf (perfume) and therefore even if the wine is spilling out since it is not a loss to the Kohen he may make it into Terumas Ma’aser, however oil of Terumah that is Tamei has value because it may be used for lighting and therefore l’Chatchilah if the oil is spilling out it may not be made into Terumas Ma’aser but if it is only spilling out little by little b'Dieved if he made it into Terumah it is valid.
 
8. Water or wine that is left open may not be used because of the concern that a poisonous snake drank from it.

BRIEF INSIGHT

WINE FOR HONEY
 
If a person’s jug of honey cracks and his friend spills out his wine in order to save the honey he only receives wages for his effort. The Nimukei Yosef asks why he doesn’t receive payment for the wine that he lost. If someone is occupied in a lucrative vocation and he takes off from work in order to return a Metziah he receives the amount that a person who is occupied in such a vocation would take in exchange for being idle, accordingly a person who spills out his wine in order to save his friend’s honey should receive the value of his wine. The Nimukei Yosef answers that that since it is common that a person takes off from work in order to return a Metziah therefore the Rabanan decreed that he receives compensation but it is not common for a person to spill out his wine in order to catch spilling honey and therefore the Rabanan did not decree that he receives the value of the wine since he should have made a Tenai.

QUICK HALACHAH

VALUE OF THE WINE
 
If two people are traveling together and one has a jar of honey and the other has a jug of wine and the jar of honey cracked and before the honey spilled to the ground the owner of the wine spilled out his wine in order to save the honey he only receives the wages that are due for his work. If he says I will save your [honey] and you will give me [the value of my wine] or he made this condition in front of Bais Din he must give him [the value of the wine]. If the honey spills to the ground it is Hefker and anyone who saves it may keep it. (Rambam Hilchos Ge’zeilah 12:4)

Next Daf

Index to Revach for Maseches Bava Kama


MAIN BAVA KAMA PAGE

KIH Logo
D.A.F. Home Page

Other Masechtos  •  Join Mailing Lists  •  Ask the Kollel
Dafyomi Calendar  •  חומר בעברית
Donations  •  Feedback  •  Dafyomi Links