More Discussions for this daf
1. The hen and the rooster 2. Koy 3. בית הלל אומרים לא ישחוט
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BEITZAH 7

MICHAEL PLASKOW asked:

(a) This Koy was a safek chaya or behaima. Was it in fact ever shechted or is it used to show halachic answers to similar problems.

(b) Rashi tells us it should not be used for Simchat Yom Tov. But why doesn't the Gemara tell us that if it is shechted, to cut out the fat automatically, just in case it has chelev and not shuman?

(c) Why did not the Rabbanim assur this animal in view of all the sefakim that can arise as a result of shechita (Kisui dam for example)?

MICHAEL PLASKOW, NETANYA, ISRAEL

The Kollel replies:

(a) Koy is not a theoretical creature. There are some different explanations for it's identity:

1. See REMA YD 28:4 that some say that one should cover the blood of the buffalo, and see BI'UR HA'GRA #7 who writes that this is because some translate Koy as buffalo.

2. See REMA Shulchan Aruch OC 498:18 who writes that a Koy is the child born from a crossbreed between a male goat and a female deer. (This opinion is mentioned in Gemara Chulin 80a. The Gemara there also cites other opinions concerning the identity of Koy.)

(b) The Gemara here (8b) does effectively say that the Chelev of the Koy is forbidden. The Gemara says that the reason one does not perform Kisuy ha'Dam on Yom Tov is because of a Gezeirah that if one would do so, one would come to think that it is a "Chayah" and would consequently say that the Chelev is permitted. One can infer from this that the Chelev of a Koy is in fact forbidden and must be cut out.

The Mishnah in BIKURIM 2:10 states explicitly that the Chelev of a Koy is forbidden in the same way that the Chelev of a Beheimah is forbidden, so it is not necessary for the Gemara here to state this again.

(c) The Gemara (8b) does in fact ask why one does not make a Gezeirah not to Shecht the Koy because of the doubts involved.

As stated above in (b), on Yom Tov a Gezeirah was indeed made so that one should not come to eat its forbidden fats. The Gemara asks that one should not Shecht a Koy even on a weekday for the same reason. The Gemara finally answers that it is obvious to all that even if Koy is a Safek, one should cover the blood (on a weekday) because of the doubt. People will not assume, based on the fact that we cover the Koy's blood, that it is a Chayah (and permit the Chelev). In contrast, if Kisuy ha'Dam would be required on Yom Tov, people would conclude that Koy must certainly be a Chayah because otherwise Chazal would not have required one to go to the trouble of covering the blood on Yom Tov. Consequently, they would say that the Chelev of a Koy is permitted.

KOL TUV

D. Bloom

Samuel Kosofsky comments:

Rabbotai,

Whatever the koy was it couldn't the American buffalo also known as the bison. That's a purely North American creature found in the American midwest but not native to Asia or Europe. It would not have been known in Chazal's time in Eretz Yisroel, Bavel, Mitzrayim or Syria. It could certainly be the water buffalo or a variant which are found all over Asia.

Goats and deer don't usually mate and are not particularly close in species (although if Chazal say they could mate there has to be some possibility of it), so I'd bet on the water buffalo.

B'kavod,

Samuel Kosofsky