More Discussions for this daf
1. Eggs inside a chicken on Yom Tov 2. Tosfos 3. Nolad as Muktzah
4. Muktzah & Tevel 5. Tosfos DH u'Beis Hillel, Tosfos DH Gabei 6. Hachana d'Rabah
7. Eruv Tavshilin 8. Eruv Tavshilin for Gebrochts 9. Beit Shamai's Chidush
10. Hachanah from Shabbos for a weekday 11. Hachanah by cooking and baking 12. The Heter to use a broken utensil
13. Introduction to Muktzah 14. Beis Hillel/Beis Shamai 15. Addition to Insight
16. Possible mistake 17. Hachanah d'Rabah 18. ביצה שנולדה ביו"ט

Benjie Gerstman asked:

You wrote:

>>2. NOLAD. When an item did not exist in its present form during Bein ha'Shemashos between Friday and Shabbos, but rather it was created (or was significantly changed) on Shabbos, it belongs to the category of Muktzah known as Nolad ("born"). Utensils that broke on Shabbos did not exist in their present form before Shabbos. Therefore, they are considered Nolad. Similarly, date pits from dates that were eaten on Shabbos are Nolad, since they were part of a fruit when Shabbos entered and emerged as pits only on Shabbos. Moving such items is prohibited according to Rebbi Yehudah, since a person could not have had in mind to use them before Shabbos, when they did not yet exist, and is permitted according to Rebbi Shimon, since he holds that advance positive intention to use an item on Shabbos is not necessary.<<

Regarding broken utensils, please look at Hilchot Muktza (Bodner) page 174, footnote 24, that according to some Poskim, the Heter of using broken utensils for which some use can still be made, is NOT because of Nolad, but rather because it can still be used.

Benjie Gerstman

(This comment is not meant for the public forum)

The Kollel replies:

That is correct -- when we say that Rebbi Shimon permits items of Nolad such as broken utensils, the reason is because they still have some use -- see Shabbos 124b. (Rebbi Shimon agrees that the item needs Hachanah before Shabbos, but he holds that the use for which it was fit before Shabbos suffices as its Hachanah, even after the item is changed. For this reason, Rebbi Shimon prohibits completely new items, as Tosfos says here (DH Ka Salka Da'atcha).

This applies to all types of Muktzah which Rebbi Shimon permits -- he considers them Muchan for various reasons.

M. Kornfeld