More Discussions for this daf
1. Lashon ha'Ra 2. Rebbi Chama 3. Nega'im for Lashon ha'Ra
4. The Guards against Lashon ha'Ra 5. Kills Three
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERCHIN 15

Rovvy asked:

Hi,

I was just reviewing a gemara in maseches "Arachin" (15b), where a teaching is quoted by either "Rabbi Chama bar Chanina" or "Rabbi Chama b'Rebbi Chanina". I noticed on your website and in sefer "Shmiras HaLashon", that "Rabbi Chama bar Chanina" is written, while in a Vilna gemara (e-daf) and Bar Ilan cd, it's "b'Rebbi".

Is one of these possibilities ta'us sofrim?

Just as a follow-up to what I've written below, I noticed that in the same sugya there is a mention of Rabbi Acha b'Rebbi Chanina (alternatively Acha bar Chanina). On your site, in your section "point by point summary", you mention "Rav Acha bar Chanina", but in your "review questions" on the daf, "Acha b'Rebbi Chanina" is written. The text as recorded in the current printing of "Shmiras HaLashon" writes "bar" for both men, while the Vilna gemara and Bar Ilan cd both write it as "b'Rebbi" in both instances. Do the meforshim on the gemara seem to indicate the true text of the gemara? Also, would these two amorayim have lived at the same time, or not necessarily.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Kol tuv,

Rovvy

The Kollel replies:

If you have a look at the bottom of Berachos 8b and the top of 9a, you will find that the two seem to be used interchangeably. (The Gemara there quotes two possibilities of what Rebbi Acha said, and in the first version he is called bar Chanina while in the second version he is called b'Rebbi Chanina.) Obviously, one is correct and the other is incorrect - but which?

(Dikdukei Sofrim doesn't comment.)

Was he the son of the great sage Rebbi Chanina, student of Rebbi? Let us try to infer his time period from the sources. He quotes Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi in Berachos there and in Chulin 132b. He quotes Rebbi Asi and he quotes Rebbi Avahu in the name of Rebbi Asi (Shabbos 45b, Yevamos 65b, Sanhedrin 41b-42a, Menachos 43a. In Yevamos 101a we find him citing "Abaye in the name of Rebbi Asi." This is certainly a typo - Abaye was much later - and it should read Rebbi Avahu, as in Yevamos 65b.) The time period matches; he may very well be the son of Rebbi Chanina.

As for Rebbi Chama, I would think that he certainly was the son of the great Rebbi Chanina bar Chama and was named after his grandfather.

Best wishes,

M. Kornfeld