More Discussions for this daf
1. No more Zahav Sagur 2. Missing letters 3. Rabbi Akiva and the Tagin
4. Tagin 5. שעטנ"ז ג"ץ 6. רש"י ד"ה כתרים
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MENACHOS 29

J. Hollander asked:

Dear Rabbi,

Rabbi Ami says that in making the menora - all of the 'Zahav Sagur' of Shlomo was expended. The Gemara asks from Melachim I, 10,21, in which it says that King Shlomo's drinking vessels were gold, and the 'Kelim' of 'Beit Yaar Halevanon' were of 'Zahav Sagur'.

The building of Beit Yaar Halevanon is described in Melachim I, 7 [verse 2 ff.] in detail. The classic commentators there all agree, according to Targum Yehonatan, that this is a palace of Shlomo, ostensibly built in a forest incalled "Levanon".

Clearly the fact that Shlomo had gold in Beit Yaar Halevanon raises a challenge to Rabbi Ami's statement, and the answer was that Rabbi Ami said only that in making the menora all of the 'Zahav Sagur' was expended. It would seem that the person who questioned Rabbi Ami's statement had not heard that Rabbi Ami used the word 'Sagur'.

However - the answer that Rabbi Ami was relating only to 'Zahav Sagur' is untenable: the pasuk says explicitely that the 'Kelim' of 'Beit Yaar Halevanon' were of 'Zahav Sagur' - thus the challenge to Rabbi Ami's statement remains?

If, on the other hand, we take the understanding of the Gemara - as is common in Piyutim - that 'Beit Yaar Halevanon' is Beis Hamikdash - we could say that the question is from the fact that the drinking vessles of Shlomo were gold, and the retort is that Rabbi Ami explicitely said 'Zahav Sagur' which was in 'Beit Yaar Halevanon' - the Beit Hamikdash.

If that is the understanding of the Gemara of 'Beit Yaar Halevanon' - is it not strange that Rashi ignores this understanding in his commentary on the Tanach?

Behatzlachah,

Yeshayahu HaKohen Hollander

The Kollel replies:

SHITAH MEKUBETZES #3 (and Dikdukei Sofrim, and Rashi etc.) are not Gores the beginning of the verse, which discusses the vessels of the Beis Ya'ar ha'Levanon.

The question of the Gemara is *not* that Shlomo should not have had any Zahav Sagur left for Beis Ya'ar ha'Levanon. It is possible that he built it *before* he ran out of Zahav Sagur. Rather, the question is that the verse indicates Shlomo remained rich throughout his reign, and he did not use all of his gold on the Menoros, since it concludes that *throughout* Shlomo's days silver was worthless (due to the large quantity of gold available; see Chidushei Rashba). The Gemara answers that indeed much gold remained; only the Zahav Sagur was depleted.

(Even according to our Girsa, the Gemara must be explained in the same manner.)

M. Kornfeld