More Discussions for this daf
1. Adam ha'Rishon's Mitzvah of Piryah v'Riviah 2. How do we learn from Moshe 3. Rebbi Akiva's students
4. Learning Torah in One's Youth 5. Talmidei R. Akiva 6. Rav Sheshet's answer
7. Rashi DH Minah Ha Milsa 8. Avelus In Sefirah 9. Timeline for Rebbi Akiva
10. י״ב אלף תלמידים או כ״ד אלף 11. לימוד תורה בילדותו 12. וכולן מתו בפרק אחד
DAF DISCUSSIONS - YEVAMOS 62

stuart plaskow asked:

The Gemorrah in Yevamos 62b states,that 24 thousand pupils of Rabbi Akivah died, because they did not give KOVOD to each other.

Is this not a very sad reflection on Rabbi Akivah & his fellow teachers, bearing in mind that it was Rabbi Akivah who stated in Toras Kohanim Perek4:12, on the verse in Leviticus19:`18 "You shall love your fellow as yourself" ZEH KLAL GODOL B'TORAH.

Awaiting your reply,

Shalom Stuart Plaskow

The Kollel replies:

First of all, please be aware that there is a difference between love and honor. For example, that very Gemara in Yevamos which you quote teaches that one should "love" one's wife like himself, and "honor" her more than himself.

Second, you may not have been aware that Rebbi Akiva lived at a time when respect for Torah study was at an all-time low. The persistent arguments between the students of Hillel and Shamai (when, not long before that period, disagreement on Torah rulings was non-existent, see Sotah 47a "Batlu ha'Eshkolos") made the Torah look as though it had been divided into two different Torahs (Sotah 47b). This, in turn, came about as a result of the terrible edicts that the Roman persecutors had recently established. These terrible decrees made it nearly impossible for a student to serve his teacher long enough and intensely enough to incorporate his teacher's approach to the Torah (see Rashi to Bava Metzia 34b). This was the Roman government that "raked Rebbi Akiva's skin with iron thongs" (Berachos 61b), and which was later referred to as "the generation of the Shemad" (see Ramban to Bereishis 32:26).

It is a wonder there were so many students who even called themselves students of Rebbi Akiva; it is certainly no wonder that they did not necessarily incorporate all of their Rebbi's teachings.

Later, Rebbi Akiva chose to concentrate on just 5 or 6 students, and to make sure that each of them truly embodied his Torah ideals. These were the Tana'im whose teachings now make up the brunt of the Mishnah.

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld

Mark Bergman writes:

I think I have heard an explanation (though I cannot remember the source), that this is exactly why Rabbi Akivah's students were punished so severely, i.e. the lack of Kovod might have been excusable in other people, but since they should have learnt from Rabbi Akivah to have a higher standard of respect, they were punished.

(Similarly, Ammon/Moav were critised for not greeting the Bnei Yisroel with bread & water on leaving Mitzraim, since they should have learnt from the ancestor Lot to welcome travellers).

Kol Tuv

Mark Bergman

Manchester UK

Chaim Mermerstein writes:

I heard an interesting explanation in the name of the Tzelimer Rav, zt'l, in regard to why the Talmidei Rebbi Akiva were Nifter because of Sinas Chinam. How can it be that once they started to die they still didn't realize what was happening, and they didn't do anything to stop it?

The Gemara in Pesachim 22 quotes Shimon ha'Amsoni who explained all of the times the word "Es" appears in the Torah. When he came to the the "Es" of "Es Hash-m Elokecha Tira," he stopped (not wanted to consider anyone "similar," with regard to awe, to Hash-m). The Gemara continues, "Until Rebbi Akiva came, and explained that the "Es" there means to include Talmidei Chachamim."

What does it mean "until Rebbi Akiva came?" From where did he come? Rebbi Akiva was coming from the burial of his Talmidim. He, too, was preplexed why his Talmidim were Niftar? He answered that "Es Hash-m Tira" means to include Talmidei Chachamim. That is to say, Talmidei Chachamim, too, have to give honor (and show awe) to each other. Prior to Rebbi Akiva's explanation, the Talmidim saw no wrong in not giving honor to each other; only ordinary people had to respect Talmidei Chachamim, but one who himself is a Talmid Chacham did not have to show respect to them. That is why they did not know why they were being punished. But now Rebbi Akiva finally understood the reason for the decree. Since the students were on such a high level, they were punished for their actions even though they were not aware that they were doing something wrong.

Chaim Mermerstein