More Discussions for this daf
1. The justification for the actions of the Moavite women 2. Ruth
DAF DISCUSSIONS - YEVAMOS 77

Simcha Blatter commented:

In Insights to Yevamos 77, you wrote:

>> The only reason to revoke the ruling would be Doeg's argument, that the

Moavite women were expected to greet the Jewish women and since they did not

go out to greet them, they may not join the Jewish nation. The Gemara's

answer to that argument is that women are not supposed to go out to greet

even women, because they must conduct themselves with Tzeni'us and stay in

private. <<

In our Daf Yomi Shiur, Pshat was explained differently. We learned Pshat in the Gemorah as follows:

Because "JEWISH" Women conduct themselves with Tzeni'us and stay in private the Moavite women could not greet the Jewish Women !!!!

Therefore the Moavite women had no part in the Averoh that their male

counterparts participated in.

Thanks,

Simcha Blatter

The Kollel replies:

The P'shat that you write is very good. However, it seems from the statement in the Gemara, "Darko Shel Ish l'Kadem, v'Ein Darko Shel Eishah..." that the emphasis is on the women who would be coming out to greet others, saying that it is not their Derech.

We will share your P'shat with the other readers and see how they learned.

Kol Tuv,

Y. Shaw

Mark Bergman comments:

"Because "JEWISH" Women conduct themselves with Tzeni'us and stay in private the Moavite women could not greet the Jewish Women !!!!"

I think the Maharshal says that Peshat - he says that the Torah would not expect the Moavite women to stay inside. (We liked the Peshat at the time, although I think your question on it is also quite good).

Kol Tuv

Mark Bergman

Manchester, UK

The Kollel replies:

Yashar Ko'ach -- it is indeed the MAHARSHAL who says that P'shat. Thank you for pointing it out to us.

Y. Shaw

J. Levitin comments:

My shiur learned p'shat the same way that Mr. Blatter learned p'shat (that the Gemorah was referring to the Jeiwsh women. I pointed out your question to my Maggid Shiur, but he responded that it does not make sense that this rule of Tznius would go on the Moavite women, since we do not specifically find that they cared about tznius.

Y. Levitin

The Kollel replies:

Thank you for your comments. Please share with your Rosh Kollel what we wrote about the Heter of the Moavite women coming only after Rus comes to the scene, because of your Magid Shi'ur's question. (By the way, she was, indeed, a "Bas Melech," according to the Gemara that says that she was Eglon's grandchild.) Here's a copy of that part of the Insights, again.

Be well!

===================

(from Insights to Yevamos 77)

RAV YEHUDAH LANDY suggests that Boaz, also, did not realize at the time that the permissive ruling was based on a Halachah l'Moshe mi'Sinai. He had another reason for feeling confident that no later Beis Din might revoke the ruling and prohibit a Moavite woman.

The only reason to revoke the ruling would be Doeg's argument, that the Moavite women were expected to greet the Jewish women and since they did not go out to greet them, they may not join the Jewish nation. The Gemara's answer to that argument is that women are not supposed to go out to greet even women, because they must conduct themselves with Tzeni'us and stay in private.

It is reasonable to assume that Doeg did not accept that argument because Tzeni'us had no place in the Moavite nation. (Promiscuity was the foundation of the Moavite nation, as Lot's daughter conceived her son, Moav, through her father and unabashedly publicized that fact in her child's name; cf. Bereishis 19:37). Boaz, however, saw that Ruth excelled in the Midah of Tzeni'us (Rashi to Ruth 2:5, based on the Gemara in Shabbos 113b). He had firsthand proof to the veracity of the Gemara's response to Doeg's argument. He realized that the Moavite women could justify not going to greet the Jewish women, since they did have the potential even for the Midah of Tzeni'us. That is why he felt comfortable marrying Ruth.

(This explains the Midrash in the Yerushalmi Yevamos 8:3, that says that Boaz told Ruth, "Had you come two or three days earlier, you would not have been able to marry a Jew, for it is only now that we canonized the Halachah that a Moavite woman is permitted to marry a Jew." It was only because of the Tzeni'us that Ruth displayed, that the courts ruled to allow Moavite women to join the Jewish people.)