More Discussions for this daf
1. The Strength of Esther? 2. Post Purim Riddle 3. Purim Travelers
4. Purim Meshulash 5. רש"י ד"ה ומחו לה 6. והוא שכתובה כולה
7. מה ראו על ככה ומה הגיע עליהם 8. בציבור שנו
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MEGILAH 19

Meir Eliezer Bergman asked:

I generated some interesting discussion over Purim with the following riddle:

What is the case where a group of people are preparing to read the Megilla, and one person walks in, and they are now unable to read the Megilla (i.e. they would not be Yotze). They ask him to go out, and they are now able to read the Megilla. (The person is properly clean & dressed etc).

Clue: the person is the tenth to join the group.

Answer: The case is reading with a Megilla haksuva Bein Hakesuvim, a scroll of the whole Kesuvim. The Gemoro (Megilla 19) says that such a Megilla is only kosher if the Megillas Esther part is larger or smaller than the rest, to ensure it is recognisable, and there is proper Pirsumei Nisa; otherwise it cannot be used (lo yotzo). The Gemoro then says that this pesul is only BeTzibbur (with a congregation of 10 people). The Halocho is brought in Shulchan Oruch 691:8 (see Mishna Brura); with less than a minyan there is anyway not so much Pirsumei Nisa so it is not so important that the Megilla Haksuva Bein HaKesuvim need be larger/smaller.

Now, my question: my Rov (Rav Yosef Shlomo Cohen Halevi) questioned: when the Gemoro says "lo yotzo", does it really mean that if a tzibbur used such a megilla they are not yotzo at all, or maybe just that they are not yotzo the ma'alo of reading betzibbur?

Kol Tuv,

Meir Eliezer Bergman, Manchester, UK

The Kollel replies:

Your Rav's Chakirah is a very strong one. In fact one can ask further that since the Gemara says that they are not Yotzei b'Tzibur this means that the individuals no longer combine together and this should automatically mean that they are not considered a Tzibur but rather individuals. If so, they must be Yotzei because the Gemara said that the individual is Yotzei. (In other words it is a sort of catch situation where once you say they are not Yotzei b'Tzibur they are automatically Yotzei as Yechidim).

1. This is asked by the Turei Even (by the author of Sha'agas Aryeh). The Turei Even answers according to the Gemara above 5a that when one reads the Megilah at its correct time (i.e. on 14th Adar for non-walled cities - see Rashi DH b'Zemanah) one can do so even without a Minyan because since everyone reads the Megilah on the 14th there is automatically Pirsumei Nisa, whilst if one reads it not at the correct time (e.g. villagers who read it before the 14th when they are in town) one can only do so with a Minyan, because otherwise there would not be Pirsumei Nisa.

2. The Turei Even asserts that when the Gemara here states that it is only b'Tzibur that one may not read the Megilah if it is Kesuvah Bein ha'Kesuvim, this does not literally mean that the distinction is between whether there were ten there or not, because it is not logical that the same reading should be valid in private but not in public. Rather the words "b'Tzibur Shanu" mean that it was read at the time when only the Tzibur can read it, i.e. not at the correct time, but rather before the 14th. She'Lo b'Zemano requires specifically Pirsumei Nisa and this is not achieved when the Megilah is Kesuvah Bein ha'Kesuvim. Even though a congregation is present, there is not Pirsumei Nisa because it looks as if you are simply reading from the Tanach. If one reads the Megilah at the wrong time, one requires two conditions: that there should be a Minyan present and also that the Megilah should not be Bein ha'Kesuvim.

3. In contrast, if one reads the Megilah on the 14th (i.e. the time when an individual can read it), even if it is Kesuvah Bein ha'Kesuvim, one is still Yotzei because since on the 14th one does not require the Pirsumei Nisa provided by a Minyan, one also does not require the Pirsumei Nisa provided by a Megilah which is written on its own, not in the midst of the Kesuvim. This is because on the 14th there is a Pirsumei Nisa created simply because one is reading it on the same day that everyone else does, and one does not require Pirsumei Nisa created by other factors.

4. According to this there is no difference between the Tzibur and the individual, but rather the difference is between the 14th and earlier. On the 14th everyone is Yotzei even with a Megilah Kesuvah Bein ha'Kesuvim, whilst before the 14th neither a Tzibur nor an individual is Yotzei with such a Megilah because one is missing Pirsumei Nisa.

Good Shabbos

Dovid Bloom