More Discussions for this daf
1. The Berachah said on rain in Eretz Yisrael 2. Blessing of the Rains 3. "malkosh"
4. Yoreh 5. Brochoh on rain 6. Pshat In Rashi D"H d'Lo Asa Mitra mei'Ikara
DAF DISCUSSIONS - TA'ANIS 6

Daniel Gray asks:

Why does the Gemorah not like praising Hash-m with "Rov" vs "Kol" when Rashi in Chumash Parshas vayishlach 33-11 points out that Eisav's usage of Rov is more inclusive than Yaakovs use of Kol?

Answering that Kol and Kal are different or answering that the different context from there to brocho on rain affects the words meaning, isn't satisfying since at end of day it's the same root of the word and from the Parsha it can be proven that Tov has an expansive use and can be used with that meaning intended

Daniel Gray, Toronto Canada

The Kollel replies:

(a) Rashi in Vayishlach is translating "Yesh Li Rov" as "I have loads - lots more than I need," rather than "I have most of what I need." Your question is that if so, Rav is justified in blessing Hash-m with "Rov Hahoda'os," which means "lots and lots of praise," and not "most of the praise."

That is an excellent question.

(b) I believe that the answer to your question can be found in the Ritva, who wonders why Rav would have instituted such a dubious phrasing as Rov ha'Hoda'os? Would he not have wanted to bless Hash-m with all the praises, as Rava asks? In addition, why did Rav Papa rule to include the word 'Rov' in his final version of the Berachah? What does that add to 'Kel ha'Hoda'os,' which is already included in the Berachah?

The Ritva answers that the word Rov has two meanings. It can mean 'very many' (as in "Rov Banav" of Haman, or "Rov Chasadav") or it can mean 'most' (as in "Ratzuy l'Rov Echav" of Mordechai).

Rav used the word in the context of "very many" - as the Torah uses the word in Vayishlach. He chose that word to reflect the large number of raindrops that fall, and the great good that they bring to mankind.

However, Rava did not accept that phrasing because it could Chas v'Shalom be misinterpreted. When it comes to prayer, we must be careful not to include words that can possibly be misinterpreted - especially when it can bring one to a false conclusion bordering on Kefirah. Therefore, he insisted on removing the word 'Rov' from the Berachah.

Rav Papa ruled that together with the phrase 'Kel ha'Hoda'os' we may safely use the word 'Rov' in the context of "very many," since there is no room left for misinterpretation.

(c) This answers your question as well. Rav and Rav Papa indeed understand the word "Rov" exactly as Rashi understood it in Vayishlach. But Rava insisted on being more exact when it comes to the phraseology of prayers.

Best wishes,

Mordecai Kornfeld

Kollel Iyun Hadaf