More Discussions for this daf
1. ha'Tov v'ha'Meitiv 2. Making 2 Berachos on lightning and thunder 3. ha'Tov v'ha'Meitiv
4. Thunder and lightening 5. Birchas Ha'Chama 6. Question on words of the Pirkei d'Rebbi Eliezer
7. Gesher d'Bavel 8. Thunder and lightning 9. Father's passing away
10. the sound of one hand clapping 11. Hatov Veha Meitiv on different wines 12. Beracha on Lightning, Toch Kedei Dibur
13. Birkas ha'Chamah and Tekufas Shmuel 14. ברכת החמה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 59

Shalom Spira asked:

Shalom Aleckeim Rebbi,

I believe that a certain halakhic point raised in the DAF Insight for Berachos 59a is contradicted by the Sefer Piskei Teshuvos (Simcha Rabinowitz, 5762) on Orach Chaim 227. The DAF insight says [I am quoting]

One must recite the blessing "Toch Kedei Dibur" (within a time span of approximately two seconds) of seeing the lightning or hearing the thunder. If he delayed, then he may not recite the blessing until he sees lightning or hears thunder again (Mishnah Berurah 227:12). [end of quotation] However, it seems clear from the Piskei teshuvos that once one has missed the blessing for the first thunder or lightning, he can never say it again (until next day or a new storm). Also, I looked at that Mishnah Berurah and his words are compatible with the Piskei Teshuvos.

Thank you very kindly.

Shalom Spira, Montreal, Canada

The Kollel replies:

Shalom and thanks for your question.

Let me first mention that currently the sefer you mentioned is not available to me. The MB you mentioned states that if a person failed to recite the brocha within Kedei Dibur he may no longer say the brocha for that particular lightening/thunder. He does not say that one must wait for a new storm or the next day before he can say the brocha.

I would also like to explain the logic behind the ruling in the DAF insights. If a person sees a large sea for example, he recites Oseh Ma'aseh Beraishis. He may not recite the brocha again for that particular sea until thirty days expire from the last time he saw it. This applies even if he did not recite the brocha when he first saw it. However he should recite the brocha on a different large sea even if seen shortly afterwards. The principle is clear. For the same item, a brocha is recited only if it is awe-inspiring; this effect is lost if seen within thirty days. But this does not take away from reciting a brocha for a similar awe-inspiring item.

Regarding lightning/thunder one need not wait thirty days between storms, because each lightning/thunder is a separate entity. Technically speaking, one should therefore recite a new brocha for each lightning/thunder and not wait for a new storm or new day. The explanation is that the first brocha is in effect until there is Hesach Hada'as, which is either the end of the storm or a new day. Accordingly, if one did not recite the brocha for a lightning/thunder, he may recite it upon seeing a new one. This explanation can be found in the Kaf ha'Chayim.

Yehuda Landy

Yitzchok Zirkind comments:

I have the Piskei Tshuvos, and it seems you are referring to 227 Ois 8, however there he is discussing about the Barak or Ra'am that passed, and see there in footnote # 42 from the Yabia Omer (in discusssion of Machlokes Nigleh and Mkubolim on this issue) that if he is Misha'eir that he will hear another one one should be Machmir (meaning not to follow the Baalei Nigleh here, but wait and make Bracha on the next one) and he quotes the MB sk 10, (which IMHO is proof to the Kolel).

Kol Tuv,

Yitzchok Zirkind