More Discussions for this daf
1. The Obligation Of Berachah Rishonah 2. Basis for berachos 3. Neta Revai
4. Chutz Min ha'Yayin 5. A Sevara for Berachos 6. First Tosfos DH Keitzad
7. wine and olive oil 8. Kal VaChomer - Min HaTorah or Not? 9. "Em" - Mother is Klal Yisrael
10. Is logic as strong as a Biblical edict? 11. Rebbi Yehudah's opinion, and ha'Gagen/ha'Gefen 12. Kavanah For Tefilah
13. Tosfos DH Keitzad 14. Derech Eretz 15. The ideal in Torah learning
16. Fasting for a bad dream 17. The source for reciting Berachos 18. Special blessings for wine and bread
19. harmful effects of olive oil 20. The blessing for olive oil 21. Shirah of the Levi'im
22. ברכת על הגפן
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 35

Yisroel Alter Pacanowski asks:

1. The Gemora asks that if you learn that the din of 'Revai' ­ 4th year fruit must be taken to Yerushalyim applies onto grapes and not other trees from 'Hilulim' and not through the gezeira shova , how do we know a Brocha must be made before or after food.

It is strange that the Gemora does not seem to answer this question. Why?

2. The Gemora says once you know you have to make a Brocha after food, it is a kal vochomer you should make one before eating food. Tosfos (D'H Lefonov) says it is not a real kal vochomer - otherwise a Brocha before food would be min HaTorah and we know that it is not.

Why indeed is this kal vochomer not as strong as other kal vochomers that are considered a limud min haTorah?

Yisroel Alter Pacanowski, Melbourne, Australia

The Kollel replies:

1. The answer comes at the end of the Sugya. The Gemara realizes that learning from Kerem doesn't work out, nor does learning from 7 Minim, nor from Neta Revai. The final answer is that we learn that we must make Berachos from logic (one may not derive enjoyment before blessing Hash-m). So the question does not have to be answered.

All the best,Reuven Weiner

2. While many commentaries deal with this question, a simple explanation is that of the Tzlach. The Tzlach explains that while a Sevara is a Torah principle, this is applies in places where logic dictates that a certain claim is correct (see Kesuvos 22a regarding "Peh she'Asar" and Bava Kama 46b regarding "ha'Motzi me'Chaveiro"). It is possible that we also use logic to understand the parameters of certain laws that are stated by the Torah. However, we do not find that because something is a logical practice that we make up an entirely new Mitzvah mid'Oraisa. Otherwise, the Torah would not have to say any logical Mitzvos (i.e. Kibud Av v'Eim), and would rely on us to understand that they are Torah laws. Therefore, it was up to the Rabanan to institute that we must say Berachos before we eat. All the best,

Yaakov Montrose