More Discussions for this daf
1. Go'el ha'Dam in an Ir Miklat? 2. Go'el ha'Dam 3. Rambam, Hilchos Rotze'ach 7:10
4. Rav Yehudah and Ma'aseros 5. Having tree trouble 6. The Go'el ha'Dam and Eidim Zomemim
7. Rotze'ach In Mid-Air Over the Ir Miklat 8. Harag b'Osah ha'Ir 9. l'Heichan Golin l'Machaneh Leviah
10. Ben Levi 11. Ki b'Ir Miklato Yeshev 12. Tosfsos - Peirush of the R"M
13. The Trunk Inside and the Branches Outside
 DAF DISCUSSIONS - MAKOS 12
1. Joshua Danziger asks:

Hello kollel and shavua tov!

In the tosafos on 12b dh rav ashi amar, there is a reference to the "peirush of the r"m". I have seen this attributed to a "rabbeinu mordechai" in the artscroll gemara, but nothing further than that. I am not familiar with a member of the baalei tosafos by this name. Is this the same person as "the mordechai"? Or someone else?

Thank you!

Josh

2. The Kollel replies:

1) There is a Tosfos in Kesubos 47a DH Hashta who cites "my teacher the Ram", so there is at least one more place in Shas where Tosfos cites the Ram.

2) I have 2 possible suggestions who this might be. The first suggestion is Rabeinu Meir of Rotenberg. It is well-known that the Tosfos on Maseches Yoma was written by Rabineu Meir of Rotenberg. He was the teacher of the Mordecai and the Rosh.

3) However, my gut reaction is that R. Meir of Rotenberg may be a bit too late to be the one mentioned by Tosfos Makos and Kesubos. Instead I want to suggest that this might be Rabeinu Meir b'Rabbi Shmuel from Romramog, who was the son-in-law of Rashi and the father of Rabeinu Tam and the Rashbam. He is considered as one of the earliest Ba'alei Tosfos.

Shavua Tov

Dovid Bloom

It might be Rabeinu Moshe of Kutzi:-

Another possibility is that the reference is to the author of Sefer Mitzvos Gadol (SM'G) by Rabbi Moshe of Kutzi, who was one of the Baalei Tosfos.

According to this, the "Mem" would stand for Moshe.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

Tosfos elsewhere cites Rabeinu Moshe of Kutzi:-

Tosfos Berachos 14b DH uManach cites HaRav Rabbi Moshe from Kutzi so it is possible that he is "HaRam" cited by Tosfos Makos 12b DH Rav Ashi.

Dovid Bloom

Another 2 RAMs:-

I found that Tosfos Berachos 46b DH LeHeichan cites "the Ram from Aivra" and that Tosfos Nazir 41b DH veR'A cites "the Ram" so we have now found a new Baalei Tosfos with this title snd so far cannnot state with any certainty at all who exactly this is.

Dovid Bloom

3. Josh Danziger asks:

Thank you! The artscroll references to tosafos sanz which apparently called him "rabbeinu mordechai". Not sure if that helps or hurts things bc other than maybe #5, no one else has the first name "Mordechai"? Are there other references in tosafos sanz to this person?

4. The Kollel replies:

1) Josh, this is very important to know that Tosfos Shantz here cites this in the name of "My teacher H' Mordecai". I also found in Tosfos Shantz Makos 8a DH Ha'amart that he cites "Mori R' Mordecai" and in Tosfos Shantz Makos end 21b DH Gemara HaMechapeh he cites Rabeinu Mordecai and in Makos 22a DH Hai Tana he cites "Mori HaR' Mordecai".

2) I do not see how this could be the author of the Mordecai, that we have at the end of many Masechtos in Shas, because this was written by Rav Mordecai ben Hillel hy'd (1250-1298) who was murdered Al kidush Hash-m, whilst Rabeinu Shimshon MiShantz, who I am assuming is the author of Tosfos Shantz on Makos, lived from 1150-1214.

3) I also found, bs'd, that Tosfos Bava Basra 19a DH Mishum cites H"R Mordecai, and Tosfos Shevuos 11b DH Mishum cites HR"R Mordecai and Tosfos Nidah 36a DH Hilcheta cites HaRav Mordecai bar Yitzchak.

4) So we have found that Tosfos Shantz Makos cites Rabbi Mordecai a few times, and our Tosfos on the page of Shas cites Rav Mordeai a few times. One should realise that there were hundreds of Baalei Tosfos so it is difficult to be sure who these Chachamim were, but we certainly a learning a bit about the authors of Tosfos!

Yasher Koach Gadol!

Dovid Bloom