POINT BY POINT OUTLINE

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POINT BY POINT OUTLINE OF THE DAF

prepared by Rabbi Pesach Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim

daf@dafyomi.co.il, www.dafyomi.co.il

Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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SHABBOS 144

Ask the
Kollel

1) THE ARGUMENT OF REBBI YEHUDAH AND THE CHACHAMIM

(a) Answer #1: No, 'l'Ratzon' means Stam, 'Lo l'Ratzon' means, he explicitly said that he regrets that it exuded.

(b) Answer #2: Baskets of strawberries and pomegranates are different - since the liquid [drips out and] goes to waste, from the beginning he makes it Hefker.

1. What is the source (for Rabah (143B)) that Chachamim agree to R. Yehudah regarding other fruits?

(d) Answer (Beraisa): We may squeeze plums, quinces and crabapples, but not pomegranates;'

144b----------------------------------------144b

1. In the house of Menasiya bar Menachem they would squeeze pomegranates [on weekdays; this shows that it is common to squeeze them].

(e) Question: How do we know that this is like Chachamim - perhaps it is like R. Yehudah!

1. Counter-question: Even R. Yehudah only [explicitly] permitted what flows from fruits, he did not permit squeezing [on Shabbos]!

2. Answer: You must say that because these other species are not normally squeezed, one may squeeze l'Chatchilah.

(f) Answer: Presumably also Chachamim permit l'Chatchilah (since one is never liable for squeezing these fruits, there is no reason to forbid! Rashi - Rav Nachman (143B) only said 'presumably', for it is possible that the Beraisa is only R. Yehudah's opinion.)

(g) Conclusion: The Beraisa is [even] like Chachamim.

(h) (Beraisa): In the house of Menasiya bar Menachem they would squeeze pomegranates.

(i) (Rav Nachman): The Halachah follows the house of Menasiya.

(j) Objection (Rava): [It is not fitting to say that the Halachah follows him -] he is not a Tana (a Tana merely supported himself by citing Menasiya's practice)!

1. Suggestion: Perhaps you mean, the Halachah follows the Tana who [forbids squeezing pomegranates, for he] holds like Menasiya (that it is normal to squeeze them).

2. Objection: This is no reason to say that the Halachah follows him - does the majority of the world hold like Menasiya?!

3. Answer: Indeed, we find that practices in one region determine the Halachah everywhere!

i. (Mishnah - R. Elazar): If one lets cactus grow in a vineyard, this is Kil'ayim, the cactus and nearby vines are forbidden;

ii. Chachamim say, only something that people normally grow is Kil'ayim.

iii. (R. Chanina): R. Elazar forbids growing cactus because in Araviya people grow cactus for their camels.

4. Rejection: Araviya is a whole region - Menasiya is an individual, his opinion is Batul to that of normal people.

(k) Answer #1: Rav Nachman holds like Rav Chisda:

1. (Rav Chisda): If one squeezed beets and put the juice in a Mikveh, if it changes the appearance of the water the Mikveh is Pasul.

2. Question: People do not normally squeeze beets!

3. Answer #1: We must say that because he [squeezed it, showing that he] considers it important, it is considered a liquid. (We must say that the Tana of the Beraisa permits squeezing only to sweeten the fruit.)

i. The same applies to squeezing pomegranates!

(l) Rejection (and Answer #2 to Question (2) - Rav Papa): Beet juice is Posel a Mikveh because one may not make a Mikveh from it (anything Pasul to make a Mikveh is Posel if it changes the appearance).

2) IS MOCHEL CONSIDERED TO BE A LIQUID?

(a) (Mishnah): If wine, vinegar or Mochel [juice from olives] fell into a Mikveh and changed its appearance, it is Posel.

(b) Question: Who is this Tana, who considers Mochel to be a liquid?

1. (Beraisa - R. Yakov): Mochel is a liquid;

i. It was taught that the first Mochel to leave [the olives] is Tahor - this is because he does not want it.

2. R. Shimon says, Mochel is not a liquid;

i. The reason that Mochel that leaves [at the end, before or after oil was squeezed out of olives in] Ekel Beis ha'Bad (a basket in which olives are pressed) is Tamei is because it surely contains drops of oil.

3. Question: [Both Metaher the first Mochel, and Metamei what leaves the Ekel -] what do they argue about?

4. Answer: They argue about [the intermediate] Mochel that exudes after the olives became warm and pressed on each other.

(d) Answer #2 (Rava): All agree that Mochel is Posel a Mikveh, because one may not make a Mikveh from it, it is Posel if it changes the appearance.

(e) (Rav Yehudah): One may squeeze a cluster of grapes into a pot [with food in it - surely, it is for the sake of the Tavshil, not for drinking], but not into an [empty] bowl.

(f) (Rav Chisda): This teaches that one may milk a goat into a pot, but not into a bowl.

(g) Inference: He holds that if a liquid goes into a solid, it is considered a solid (therefore, it is not forbidden on account of threshing).

(h) Question (Rami bar Chama - Mishnah): If a Zav milked a goat, the milk is Tamei [because he caused it to flow].

1. [The Mishnah applies does not distinguish, it applies even if he milked into a solid] - if the milk is considered a solid, it is not Mekabel Tum'ah until it is Huchshar [through a liquid]!

(i) Answer: Elsewhere, R. Yochanan answered, milk receives Hechsher because it passes over a drop smeared on the nipple - here also, it is Huchshar through a drop smeared on the tip of the udder!

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