1)

WHEN IS IBUR TZURAH REQUIRED? (cont.)

(a)

(Rabah): Also R. Yosi ha'Gelili holds like them!

1.

(Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Gelili): The verse ["V'Chol Chatas Asher Yuva mi'Damah"] teaches about an inner Chatas [whose blood is offered in the Heichal], that if it became Pasul it is burned in Beis ha'Birah, and one who eats it transgresses a Lav.

2.

Chachamim: What is your source to Posel Dam [of a regular] Chatas that entered the Heichal?

3.

R. Yosi ha'Gelili: I learn from "Hen Lo Huva Es Damah El ha'Kodesh Penimah" - had it left "Penimah," or had its blood entered the Heichal, it should be burned [immediately. Just like we burn meat immediately on account of something else (blood), we burn immediately on account of a Pesul in the owners].

(b)

R. Yochanan does not say that R. Yosi ha'Gelili holds like them - blood and meat are similar (therefore a Pesul in the blood is a Pesul ha'Guf, it is as if was in the meat), but the owner is a different entity!

2)

WHICH BONES MUST BE BURNED?

(a)

(Mishnah): Bones, sinews and Nosar of Pesach are burned on the 16th;

(b)

If the 16th is Shabbos, they are burned on the 17th.

1.

This is because burning Nosar does not override Shabbos or Yom Tov.

(c)

(Gemara - Rav Mari bar Avuha): Bones of Kodshim that once held Nosar [marrow] are Metamei hands, because they once held something forbidden.

(d)

Support (Mishnah): Bones, sinews and Nosar of Pesach are burned on the 16th.

1.

Question: What is the case of bones?

i.

If they do not have marrow, why must they be burned - one may discard them!

2.

Answer: They have marrow.

3.

If holding Nosar is significant, we understand why they must be burned - but if it is insignificant, why must they be burned? We could break them, remove the marrow and burn it, and discard the bones!

4.

Conclusion: We must say that holding Nosar is significant.

(e)

Rejection: Perhaps it is not significant - the Tana forbids breaking the bones because he expounds ["V'Etzem Lo Sishberu] Vo" - in a Kosher Pesach, or even in a Pasul Pesach (this includes after it is Nosar)!

(f)

Objection: This cannot be!

1.

(Mishnah): One who leaves over meat of [even a] Tahor Pesach or breaks a bone of a Tamei Pesach is not lashed.

(g)

Answer: The Lav of breaking bones applies only if the Korban was once permitted [and then, it applies even after it is Nosar].

(h)

Question: Who is the Tana who says that it depends on whether or not it was once permitted?

(i)

Answer: It is R. Yakov:

1.

(Beraisa): "[V'Etzem Lo Sishberu] Vo" - in a Kosher Pesach, not in a Pasul Pesach. (Tosfos - the next Tana'im explain [and argue according to] this Tana.)

2.

R. Yakov says, it is forbidden to break bones if and only if it was once permitted.

3.

R. Shimon permits in either case [if it is now Pasul].

(j)

Question (Beraisa): [Nosar] bones of Kodshim need not be burned (even if there is marrow inside - one may break the bone, remove and burn the marrow, and discard the bone] except for Pesach, lest one transgress [breaking a bone].

1.

Question: What is the case of the bones?

i.

If they do not have marrow, why must they be burned?!

2.

Answer: They have marrow.

3.

If holding Nosar was significant, also bones of Kodshim should need to be burned!

(k)

Answer #1 (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): The case is, the bones were found Chalutzim (broken with the marrow removed);

1.

There is no Isur to break bones of [other] Kodshim - surely, they were broken [to eat the marrow] while it was permitted, so the bones never held Nosar;

2.

It is Asur to break bones of [a Kosher] Pesach - surely, they were broken after the marrow was Nosar, so the bones held Nosar, therefore they must be burned.

(l)

Answer #2 (Rav Zevid): The case is, piles of bones were found, and the first ones inspected were Chalutzim;

83b----------------------------------------83b

1.

There is no Isur to break bones of Kodshim - surely, all of them were broken to eat the marrow, so they need not be burned;

2.

It is Asur to break bones of Pesach - perhaps only these were Chalutzim (the Gemara (84A-B) will suggest eight situations in which one may break bones of Pesach) but the others were not - therefore [one must check them; if they have marrow], they must be burned. (We do not require burning Chalutzim bones on account of the Safek that they served Nosar.)

3)

WHICH SINEWS MUST BE BURNED?

(a)

(Rav Yehudah): All sinews are considered meat (it is a Mitzvah to eat them and it is permitted to break them) except for sinews of the neck.

(b)

Question (Mishnah): Bones, sinews and Nosar of Pesach are burned on the 16th.

1.

Question: What is the case of sinews?

i.

The sinews cannot be considered meat - if so, they should be eaten!

ii.

Suggestion: Perhaps they were left over.

iii.

Rejection: That is Nosar [which the Mishnah mentions separately]!

2.

Answer #1: It refers to sinews of the neck.

3.

Summation of question: If they are considered meat, we understand why they must be burned (normally they are not eaten because they are hard) - but if they are not meat, why must they be burned?

(c)

Answer (and Answer #2 to Question 1 - Rav Chisda): The Mishnah refers to the Gid ha'Nasheh; it is like R. Yehudah:

1.

(Beraisa - R. Yehudah): Only one Gid ha'Nasheh (the right or left) is forbidden - Da'as (understanding) dictates, it is the right Gid.

2.

Suggestion: We must say that R. Yehudah was not sure that the right one is forbidden [therefore both are forbidden, we burn them because one of them was truly permitted. He did not mean that Da'as Torah dictates that the right Gid is forbidden.]

3.

If he was sure we would eat the permitted one and discard the forbidden one - we would not need to burn it!

(d)

Rejection #1 (Rav Ika bar Chanina): [Really, he is sure -] the case is, the right and left Gidim became mixed and we do not know which is which, therefore we burn them.

(e)

Rejection #2 (Rav Ashi): We burn the fat surrounding the Gid ha'Nasheh.

1.

(Beraisa): Mid'Oraisa, the fat around the Gid is permitted - Yisrael are Kedoshim, they do not eat it.

(f)

Rejection #3 (Ravina): We burn the outer Gid.

1.

(Rav Yehudah): The inner Gid, close to the bone, is forbidden mid'Oraisa, one who eats it is lashed;

2.

The outer Gid, close to the flesh, is forbidden [mid'Rabanan], one who eats it is exempt.

4)

WHY WE MAY NOT BURN NOSAR ON YOM TOV

(a)

(Mishnah): If the 16th is Shabbos [they are burned on the 17th].

(b)

Question: The Ase to burn Nosar should Docheh the Lav [of burning on Yom Tov]!

(c)

Answer #1 (Chizkiyah) Question: "Lo Sosiru Mimenu Ad Boker (do not leave over meat of the Pesach until the morning of the 15th) veha'Nosar Mimenu Ad Boker ba'Esh Tisrofu" - why is this repeated?

1.

Answer: This teaches that Nosar is burned on another morning [which is not Yom Tov, the 16th].

(d)

Answer #2 (Abaye): "Olas Shabas b'Shabato" - but one may not burn on the Mizbe'ach [Eimurim of a weekday Korban, e.g.] an Olah of Chol (Erev Shabbos or Erev Yom Tov) on Shabbos or Yom Tov (i.e. at night; all the more so, one may not burn Pasul Kodshim on Yom Tov).

(e)

Answer #3 (Rava): "Hu Levado Ye'aseh Lachem" - "Hu" (Melachah of food preparation is permitted on Yom Tov), not Machshirim (making things used to prepare food, which could be done before Yom Tov);

1.

"Levado" - but not circumcision after day eight, which [if not for the verse] would have been permitted from a Kal va'Chomer. (Similarly, burning Nosar, which can be done another day, does not override Yom Tov.)

(f)

Answer #4 (Rav Ashi): "Shabaton" - there is a Mitzvas Ase to rest on Yom Tov [in addition to the Lav of Melachah]; the Ase to burn Kodshim does not override a Lav and an Ase.

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