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POINT BY POINT OUTLINE

prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim

Kollel Iyun Hadaf

daf@dafyomi.co.il, www.dafyomi.co.il

Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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1) BI'AH DURING YEMEI SHIMUR (cont.)

(a) Beis Hillel exempts them from a Korban.

(b) Beis Shamai says, if she immersed on the next day, had Bi'ah and saw later in the day, they are Metamei Mishkav and Moshav, they are exempt from a Korban;

(c) Beis Hillel says, they are gluttonous (to have Bi'ah).

(d) Beis Hillel agrees that if she saw in the middle of the 11 days, immersed that night and had Bi'ah, they are Metamei Mishkav and Mishkav and are Chayav Chatas.

(e) If she immersed on the next day and had Bi'ah, this is bad behavior. The status of Taharos that they touched and the Bi'ah is Taluy. (If she sees later in the day, retroactively her immersion was invalid, so the Taharos are Teme'im and they are Chayav Korban for the Bi'ah.)

(f) (Gemara - Beraisa): All agree that if a Zavah (Ketanah, who saw on one or two days of Zivah) immersed the night after she saw, it is invalid. (She must guard at least part of the next day (after dawn) before immersing);

(g) All agree that if she saw in the middle of the 11 days, immersed that night and had Bi'ah, they are Metamei Mishkav and Moshav and are Chayav Chatas;

(h) They argue only about day 11. Beis Shamai say that they are Metamei Mishkav and Moshav, and they are Chayav Chatas. Beis Hillel exempt from a Korban.

1. Beis Shamai: Why do you say that day 11 is different than the previous days? Since their Tum'ah is the same, the Chiyuv Korban should be the same!

2. Beis Hillel: Day 11 is different, for it cannot join with the next day to make her a Zavah. Any other day can join with its morrow.

3. Beis Shamai: You should be consistent! If the Tum'ah of day 11 is like the previous days, the (Chiyuv) Korban should also be the same. If the Korban is different, also the Tum'ah should be different!

4. Beis Hillel: We equate them regarding Tum'ah, for it a stringency. We do not obligate a Korban, to be lenient about Chulin b'Azarah!

5. Beis Hillel: You yourselves are inconsistent! You say that if she (saw on day 11 and) immersed on the next day, had Bi'ah and saw later in the day, they are Metamei Mishkav and Moshav, and they are exempt from a Korban;

i. If the Tum'ah of day 11 is like the previous days, also the (Chiyuv) Korban should be the same. If the Korban is different, also the Tum'ah should be different!

ii. Rather, you are stringent about Tum'ah, but you do not obligate a Korban, for that entails a leniency. Also we make this distinction!

2) DOES BEIS SHAMAI DECREE WHEN SHE DID NOT SEE?

(a) (Rav Huna): Beis Shamai says that she is Metamei Mishkav u'Moshav on day two (of Shimur), even after immersing, even if she does not see on this day.

(b) Question: What is the reason?

(c) Answer: Since if she would see later on the day (she would be a Zavah, her immersion was invalid) she would be Metamei Mishkav u'Moshav, they decree that she is Metamei even if she does not see.

(d) Question (Rav Yosef): We already know this from our Mishnah! (Beis Shamai says,) if she immersed on the next day, had Bi'ah and saw later in the day, they are Metamei Mishkav and Moshav, they are exempt from a Korban.

(e) Objection #1 (to Rav Huna and Rav Yosef - Rav Kahana): Our Mishnah discusses when she saw later. We cannot learn to a case where she did not see!

(f) Answer (Rav Yosef): Seeing on day 12 is no reason (to be Metamei Mishkav u'Moshav retroactively. It does not make her a Zavah. Rather,) it begins Yemei Nidah! (They decree about one who saw on day 12 due to one who saw on day two (of Shimur, during Yemei Zivah). Likewise, they decree about one who did not see on day two due to one who saw!)

(g) Rejection (Abaye): Rav Kahana's objection is valid. It is reasonable to decree about seeing on day 12 due to seeing on day two, for these could be confused. We need not decree about one who did not see due to one who saw! (The coming questions are against Rav Huna.)

(h) Question (Mishnah - Beis Shamai): If Reuven had one sighting of Zov, he is like a Shomeres Yom k'Neged Yom. (If he sees again, he is retroactively a Zav from the first sighting. There are differences, i.e. a Shomeres Yom is concerned for a second sighting only on the morrow, but Reuven is concerned also for a second sighting that same day.)

1. Beis Hillel says, he is like a Ba'al Keri. (He cannot become a Zav retroactively.)

72b----------------------------------------72b

2. (Beraisa - Beis Shamai): If Shimon moves the Zov, we are Toleh (what Shimon touches afterwards. If Reuven sees again, his first Zov was Metamei Shimon due to Masa);

3. Beis Hillel is Metaher. (In any case the Zov is like semen. Its only Tum'ah is b'Maga.)

4. Beis Shamai is Toleh a Mishkav or Moshav that Reuven sat on after the first sighting;

5. Beis Hillel is Metaher.

6. Summation of question: Beis Shamai equates Reuven to a Shomeres Yom. This shows that her Tum'ah is Taluy (just like his)!

(i) Answer: It means that he is like a Bo'el Shomeres Yom.

(j) Question: Why does Beis Shamai decree that a Shomeres Yom is Metamei Mishkav u'Moshav, but he (Rashi - the Bo'el; Tosfos - Reuven) is not?

(k) Answer: She often becomes Teme'ah through blood, but he does not. Therefore they decreed only on her.

(l) Question: Why does Beis Shamai decree that a Shomeres Yom is Metamei Mishkav u'Moshav, but not the Bo'el? (Tosfos ha'Rosh - he is not even a Rishon due to touching her.)

(m) Answer: A Shomeres Yom frequently sits on Mishkav u'Moshav, but it is uncommon to have Bi'ah with her. (It is forbidden.)

(n) Question (Mishnah): If she immersed on the next day and had Bi'ah, this is bad behavior. The status of Taharos that they touched and the Bi'ah is Teluyim.

1. Suggestion: All agree to this!

(o) Answer: No, it is Beis Hillel. (Beis Shamai disagrees);

1. (Beraisa - Beis Shamai): Do you call this mere bad behavior? He intended to have Bi'ah with a Nidah!

2. Objection: She is not a Nidah!

3. Correction: Rather, he intended to have Bi'ah with a Zavah.

4. Objection: She is not a Zavah!

5. Correction: Rather, he intended to have Bi'ah with a Shomeres Yom.

3) DOES DAY 10 REQUIRE SHIMUR?

(a) Version #1 (R. Yochanan): If a woman sees blood on day 10 (of Zivah), she is like one who saw on the ninth. Just like the latter must be Shomer the next day (for she can become a full Zavah if she sees on days 10 and 11), so too, when she sees on the 10th. (She can become a Zavah Ketanah, if she will see on day 11);

(b) (Reish Lakish): One who sees on day 10 is like one who sees on day 11. just like the latter need not be Shomer the next day (even if she would see, it is Dam Nidah, and not Dam Zivah), also the former (even though she can become a Zavah Ketanah if she will see on day 11).

(c) Version #2 (Beraisa - R. Elazar ben Azaryah): (R. Akiva expounded "Chalos Matzos Belulos ba'Shemen u'Rekikei Matzos Meshuchim ba'Shamen" to teach that only a half-Log of oil is used altogether for the three kinds of Matzah brought with the Korban Todah.) I do not accept your Derashos. Rather, a tradition from Sinai teaches a half-Log of oil for Lachmei Todah, a quarter-Log of wine for a Nazir (to be lashed for drinking), and day 11 (of Zivah) between Nidah and Nidah (Rashi; Tosfos - the tradition about Zivah is merely that there are 11 days; the argument of R. Yochanan and Reish Lakish is based on reasoning, not on the tradition. In Menachos 89a, the text says 'a quarter-Log of oil for (Lachmei) Nazir. Aruch l'Ner prefers our text, for then all three of these are unlike R. Akiva.)

(d) Question: What is the Halachah regarding day 11?

(e) Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): It is one Halachah. Day 11 does not require Shimur, but it can be Shimur for day 10. (There is no tradition about being Shimur for another day.)

(f) Answer #2 (Reish Lakish): There are two Halachos. Day 11 does not require Shimur, and it is not Shimur for day 10.

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