12TH CYCLE DEDICATIONS:
 
ERUVIN 27 - Dedicated by Rabbi Dr. Eli Turkel of Ra'anana, Israel, in memory of his grandparents, Reb Shlomo ben Eliezer Lipa ha'Levi Turkel (whose Yahrzeit is on 21 Tishrei, Hoshana Raba) and Rachel Turkel.

27b----------------------------------------27b

1)

LAWS THAT DEPEND ON GIDULEI KARKA [Gidulei Karka]

(a)

Gemara

1.

(Beraisa): "V'Nasatah ha'Kesef b'Chol Asher Te'aveh Nafshecha" is a Klal. "Ba'Bakar uva'Tzon uva'Yayin uva'Shechar" are Peratim. "Uv'Chol Asher Tish'alcha Nafshecha" is another Klal;

2.

From a Klal u'Ferat u'Chelal we learn everything that is like the Peratim, i.e. anything that reproduces and is Gidulei Karka (grows from the ground).

3.

Shabbos 18a (Beraisa - Rebbi): If Reuven put Efer (ashes) and Shimon put water, Shimon is liable [for kneading].

4.

Suggestion: Perhaps the Beraisa does not mean Efer, rather, Afar (earth).

5.

74b (Rava): If one makes a barrel on Shabbos, he is liable seven Chata'os.

(b)

Rishonim

1.

Rambam (Hilchos Shabbos 8:5): Me'amer applies only to Gidulei Karka.

i.

Tosfos (Shabbos 73b DH Mefarek): Dash applies only to Gidulei Karka. This is why Chachamim exempt one who crushes a Chilazon. Do not answer that animals are considered Gidulei Karka, like it says in Eruvin. Chachamim learn from ingredients in the Mishkan. Animals that grow on the ground are not included. A worker who milks or curdles is not entitled to eat from it, for it is not considered Gidulei Karka (Bava Metzi'a 89a).

ii.

Terumas ha'Deshen (56): The Rosh says that grinding does not apply to food. Several opinions say that grinding applies to Peros. However, all can agree that grinding does not apply to cooked or roasted meat. Meat does not grow from the ground. We find this regarding Me'amar (making piles). Abaye says that it applies only to Gidulei Karka. Even though Rava argues (73b), since grinding does not apply to food so much, we can say that regarding grinding food, all agree that we distinguish Gidulei Karka [from other foods]. Since Tosfos and the Rosh say that grinding does not apply to other foods, we do not contradict them unless we find that other Ge'onim (i.e. great Rishonim) explicitly argue. If we can say that they agree about a matter (e.g. what is not Gidulei Karka), we do.

iii.

Shiltei ha'Giborim (Shabbos 32a:3): I say that meat is Gidulei Karka, like it says in Eruvin, Tosfos (73b DH Mefarek) and the Ran (in old editions attributed to the Ritva, Shabbos 95a DH Cholev).

iv.

Rashi (74b DH Sheva): The seven Chata'os for making a barrel are for grinding the clumps of earth, kneading the earth [with water]...

v.

Me'iri (Berachos 40b DH ha'Pas): Truffles and mushrooms are Gidulei Karka, but they nurture primarily from the air. They grow with a small amount of earth on trees and rocks.

vi.

Ritva (Sukah 11b DH Gemara): Gidulei Karka has two meanings. 1) Something that truly grows from the ground. It sprouts and nurtures from the ground, e.g. Peros and all vegetables. The second is something that grows and increases on the ground, but does not nurture from it, such as animals. If the Torah gives Peratim of Peros and animals, e.g. regarding Ma'aser, we include both kinds of Gidulei Karka. If the Torah gave only one Prat of these two, we do not include the other.

(c)

Poskim

1.

Shulchan Aruch (OC 321:9): One may cut cooked or roasted meat finely with a knife.

i.

Taz (8): Meat is not Gidulei Karka. Grinding does not apply to its species.

ii.

Kaf ha'Chayim (72): Here we permit even for one who could not chew them uncut. This is for meat, which is not Gidulei Karka.

iii.

Eliyahu Rabah (14): Olas Shabbos asked why one may not cut cheese with Moreg (a grater). It is not Gidulei Karka, just like meat! This is not difficult. One may cut it finely with a knife. It is forbidden only with a Kli special for grinding.

2.

Rema: One may not cut raw meat finely in front of birds. Since they could not eat it without this, he makes it a food. See 324:7.

i.

Gra (DH Mutar): Grinding applies to only to Gidulei Karka, like it says about Me'amer. The same applies to all Melachos involving [what grows from] the ground (75a).

ii.

Mishnah Berurah (31): Even according to the Poskim who hold that animals are called Gidulei Karka, for they are nourished from the ground, we do not forbid due to this, for in any case some Poskim say that grinding does not apply to food. Therefore, one may cut even for later consumption.

iii.

Kaf ha'Chayim (51): Even though some say that meat is Gidulei Karka, we hold like the Shulchan Aruch, who permits, like the Terumas ha'Deshen.

iv.

Kaf ha'Chayim (52): Nishmas Adam (17:2) says that true grinding applies even to what is not Gidulei Karka. For what is not true grinding, we forbid only Gidulei Karka. The same applies to all Melachos [related to the land - PF]. The Melachah itself applies to everything. What resembles it applies only to Gidulei Karka.

v.

Ha'Elef Lecha Shlomo (OC 139 DH She'elaso): Kneading does not apply to eggs, for they are not Gidulei Karka. This is like the Terumas ha'Deshen, Shulchan Aruch and Magen Avraham (321:10). Even according to the opinion that kneading applies to meat, for it is Gidulei Karka, kneading does not apply to eggs, for they merely Gidulei Gidulei Karka. (They grow from what grows from the ground.) Even those who hold that kneading applies to something that is not Bar Givul (does not knead well), this is only if Achshevei [he considers it something to knead with], and this makes it Bar Givul. This is only if he kneads with only one matter. Achshevei does not apply if he kneads two matters together. Perhaps his intent is not for what is not Bar Givul, rather, for what is Bar Givul! Therefore, even if one of the matters he kneads is Gidulei Karka, if one of them is not, kneading does not apply.

vi.

Tzitz Eliezer (11:36): Tehilah l'David was unsure whether kneading applies to eggs, since they are not Gidulei Karka, even if they are kneaded with onions. Ha'Elef Lecha Shlomo assumed that kneading does not apply to eggs, and used this to justify the custom to dice onions and mix them with eggs and oil until they become like a thick dough. Also Yad Yosef (OC 321) wanted to say so. However, he asked that the onions are Gidulei Karka. Ha'Elef Lecha Shlomo was not bothered by this [since the eggs are not Gidulei Karka].

vii.

Question: Does kneading apply to what is not Gidulei Karka, e.g. oil or similar things mixed with eggs, liver or minced fish? Perhaps kneading does not apply, just like grinding does not apply to what is not Gidulei Karka.

viii.

Answer (Igros Moshe OC 4:74:13): It seems that kneading is not limited to Gidulei Karka. It applies to earth, like it says in Shabbos and in Rashi.

ix.

Question: Rashi said that one is liable for grinding the clumps of earth. This is unlike Shulchan Aruch (321:9), which permits dicing meat. The Magen Avraham says that one reason is because it is not Gidulei Karka!

x.

Answer (Igros Moshe): That refers to grinding. Regarding kneading, for which the Gemara explicitly obligates for earth, which is not Gidulei Karka, we do not find anyone who argues. It is easy to distinguish. Grinding is a Melachah that pertains to the land; see Bi'ur ha'Gra. Kneading is not considered a Melachah of the land. Therefore, one must use a Shinuy to knead liver, fish or similar things.

3.

Shulchan Aruch (225:6): A Pri that does not have a new growing season every year, even if he did not eat from it many days, he does not bless Shehecheyanu on it.

i.

Magen Avraham (12): This refers to something that is not Gidulei Karka, such as birds and fish. Even though he did not eat it, others ate it (Mordechai Sukah 771).

ii.

Eshel Avraham: One does not bless Shehecheyanu on truffles and mushrooms, for they grow from the air, and they do not have a fixed time.

4.

Shulchan Aruch (316:8): If one wounds one of the eight Sheratzim mentioned in the Torah, even if the blood did not leave, just it gathered under the skin, he is liable.

i.

Magen Avraham (15): Some say that wounding is liable for Mefarek, which is a Toladah of Dash (threshing). Even though Dash applies only to Gidulei Karka, an animal is considered Gidulei Karka.

5.

Shulchan Aruch (340:9): One may not gather salt from Misrefos (places where it is produced from sea water), for this is like Me'amer.

i.

Magen Avraham (15): It is not true Me'amer, for Me'amer applies only to Gidulei Karka, just like Dash. Rava says so regarding Dash. The Rambam rules like this. There is no source to distinguish Me'amer from Dash. We learn all of them from the Mishkan.

6.

Shulchan Aruch (YD 84:16): Some permit worms found in a bowl that fell out of meat. We are not concerned lest they separated alive from the meat.

i.

Taz (23): Why don't we equate them to worms that fell from Peros? It seems that we rely on Avi ha'Ezri, brought in the Beis Yosef, who forbids Sheratzim only in Gidulei Karka. This explains also the Heter to be lenient about cheese brought in the Rema below.

7.

Rema: The custom is to permit worms in cheese, as long as they did not totally separate.

See Also:

LIABILITY FOR DICING (Shabbos 155)

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF